There's something strange about this whole narrative. I don't know anything about the science or personalities at all (except for having seen a number of Hosselfelder's videos, and what she said in her recent video about Weinstein). But here in this blog post we have story after story of people who seemed really enthusiastic about talking to Nguyen, and then later ghosted him or changed the topic of conversation or s…
The contrarian physics podcast subculture
241–250 of 269 posts
Re: The contrarian physics podcast subculture
#242Tim Nguyen has put an extraordinary effort into finding the truth in this entire long exchange, and it's been mostly thankless. His appearance on Decoding the Gurus was a highlight of the show's early seasons. https://decoding-the-gurus.captivate.fm/episode/special-epis... Perhaps you would agree with Weinstein and Hossenfelder that physics today is broken. But that does not in itself prove that the people peddling a…
The real root of brokenness in physics is not bad ideas or a lack of good ideas but it is that experiments are nowhere near being able to answer the big questions. Ok, we will probably get some insight into the neutrino mass from KATRIN but we are in the dark when it comes to dark matter, proton decay (predicted by all GUTs including string theory), etc. In the absence of real data there is all sorts of groupthink an…
> we show that faculty are up to 25 times more likely to have a parent with a Ph.D.
That seems high, but I can't contextualize it based only on these results. What would the figures be for doctors, blacksmiths, farmers, computer programmers, etc.? I guess you're likely to find disproportionate numbers of children who followed in their parents' footsteps in any profession. It's likely not something special to academia.
In any case, there are plenty of other factors that contribute beyond nepotism: early guidance and encouragement, support and understanding of career choices, parental expectations or pressures, genetics, and so on.
> Moreover, this rate nearly doubles at prestigious universities and is stable across the past 50 years.
Ok, this is a bit more suggestive, but it's also plausible to me that the factors I mentioned above are amplified for children of parents working at prestigious universities.
> Our results suggest that the professoriate is, and has remained, accessible disproportionately to the socioeconomically privileged, which is likely to deeply shape their scholarship and their reproduction.
This seemed a bit of a non sequitur to me. The results show that children of academic parents go into academia more than others, not that "socioeconomic privilege" predisposes to going into academia. For example, are the children of billionaires (or millionaires) more likely to go into academia than the children of humble academics at non-prestigious universities? I doubt it.
(I only read the abstract so please let me know if these points are addressed in the article)
Re: The contrarian physics podcast subculture
#243Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sorry, it's one thing to interview cranks like Chris Langan and Eric Weinstein, bad enough as that is. It's quite another to promote them as brave champions of suppressed truths.
Did you read my comment? I’m not promoting Langan and Weinstein either - I’m promoting Jaimungals podcast (which was disparaged on this thread) which is an absolutely wonderful for cross-disciplinary exploration of TOEs and cutting edge concepts in physics, AI, biology and consciousness and philosophy For example this podcast Frederic Schuller, an award-winning theoretical physicist and professor https://youtu.be/Bnh…
Re: The contrarian physics podcast subculture
#244Earlier quoted context omitted.
> (1) the physically impossible perpetual motion of popular understanding, e.g. machine that operates at 100% energy efficiency in perpetuity from an initial one-time energy input That's easy to make. If you spin up a wheel in the vacuum of space, it's going to keep spinning forever. If doing it in space is not allowed, then you have to allow machines that take advantage of terrestrial conditions such as drawing ener…
>If doing it in space is not allowed, then you have to allow machines that take advantage of terrestrial conditions such as drawing energy from ambient sources. Well yeah, that's (2), not (1), so no one's disallowing those. Edit: And although it's kind of moot, I'm not sure what the relationship is between space and ambient draw such that disallowing one would necessitate allowing the other.
Is it possible for a man to run 100m in less than 10 seconds? If he's not allowed to run on any kind of surface. So now we've proven that it's impossible to run 100m in less than 10 seconds?
Re: The contrarian physics podcast subculture
#245Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There is a simple test the public can use for any scientific model: does it make accurate predictions, or not? You don't need to understand how a model works to test that. It's quite obvious from your position on this matter that you're not a practicing scientist, so it's very unfortunate that your position is so assertive, as it's mostly wrong. To understand the predictions, as it were, you do have to understand t…
An example of this ideal can go horribly wrong is CERN. There's one apparatus (of each type) and each "experiment" ends up with its own team. Each team develops their own terminology, publishes in one set of papers, and the peer reviews are by... themselves. I don't work at CERN, but that criticism was from someone who does . They were complaining that they could not understand the papers published by a team down the…
1) People at CERN publish papers in "normal" physics journals, which do the usual peer review. Few articles that I've myself per-reviewed were not from my own experiment. There is, of course, also an internal reviewing for each collaboration, but it is to improve the quality and something totally natural and obvious if you want to have a collaboration (by definition, a collaboration is a place where people read each other work and feedback to each others). But it is totally different from "the work is only reviewed by the collaboration".
2) I've worked ~5 years in one experiment, and ~5 years in another, and I did not notice any different terminology. In both experiments, I've very rapidly met and learned the name of people of other experiments working on similar subject. I don't know any workshop or conference where the invited scientists are not from different experiment. During these events, there are a lot of exchanges.
3) What is true, and it is maybe the reason of your misunderstanding, is that you are strongly advised to not share non-cross-checked material outside of the collaboration. The goal is to avoid biasing the independent experiments: if you notice a strange phenomena that will later turn out to be a statistical fluctuation or if you use a new methodology that will later turn out to have unnoticed systematical biases, if you mention this to the other experiment, you will "contaminate" them: they may focus their research or adopt the flawed methodology. But this is only for non-cross-checked and it does not make any sense to pretend that it has a negative impact (a lot of scientists, in collaboration or not, towards all history, don't like to share their preliminary results before they acquired a good confidence that what they saw it reliable).
4) Do you have example of things that one could not understand while it was done down the hall from them? I don't recall "not being able to understand" (the point of a publication is to explain, so people care about making it understandable). I do recall "harder to understand", but it was often from people from the same collaboration, and the reason was because of they needed to use some mathematical tools I did not know and that there was not really any other way.
I'm sure there are cases where two groups end up diverging and it makes the collaboration more challenging. But I really doubt it is not something exceptional, and that everyone in the collaborations will try to mitigate.
Your comment makes me wonder to which extend the outsiders of CERN don't have plenty of crazy myths totally disconnected from the reality. I guess it is a good example why people like Hossenfelder are a problem: they feed on these myths and cultivate them.
Re: The contrarian physics podcast subculture
#246Earlier quoted context omitted.
>If doing it in space is not allowed, then you have to allow machines that take advantage of terrestrial conditions such as drawing energy from ambient sources. Well yeah, that's (2), not (1), so no one's disallowing those. Edit: And although it's kind of moot, I'm not sure what the relationship is between space and ambient draw such that disallowing one would necessitate allowing the other.
If you're not allowing the machines to be tested in space (no environmental factors) nor on earth (environmental factors), then there's nowhere allowed to test or make such a machine. So a perpetual motion machine becomes impossible because there is nowhere in the universe where they are accepted. Is it possible for a man to run 100m in less than 10 seconds? If he's not allowed to run on any kind of surface. So now w…
Re: The contrarian physics podcast subculture
#247Earlier quoted context omitted.
An example of this ideal can go horribly wrong is CERN. There's one apparatus (of each type) and each "experiment" ends up with its own team. Each team develops their own terminology, publishes in one set of papers, and the peer reviews are by... themselves. I don't work at CERN, but that criticism was from someone who does . They were complaining that they could not understand the papers published by a team down the…
I'm surprised by what you say, it is not at all my experience. Are you sure you are not over-interpreting what your friend said, or that your friend's experience was not unusual? 1) People at CERN publish papers in "normal" physics journals, which do the usual peer review. Few articles that I've myself per-reviewed were not from my own experiment. There is, of course, also an internal reviewing for each collaboration…
They don't though! They farm it out to expert physicists, which in the case of CERN research almost certainly also work at CERN.
> Few articles that I've myself per-reviewed were not from my own experiment.
But were they from CERN?
> Do you have example
This was a few years ago, it was a comment here on HN, but it would be hard to dig it up without an AI reading through everything.
Re: The contrarian physics podcast subculture
#248Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But that does not in itself prove that the people peddling alternatives aren't even worse. I understand this line of thinking but I don't feel that it's particularly relevant. It seems to be born out of a point of view that physics theories are a binary. We either fully support them with everything we have or we completely denigrate them to the point of demonizing anyone who shows any interest in them. Surely this…
You're arguing with an oversimplified model of the complaint about Weinstein. It's not that Weinstein has a theory that's orthogonal to mainstream physics, but rather the means with which he pursues the inquiry. He doesn't write real papers, when he released the GU paper he copyrighted it and claimed it as a "work of entertainment", in effect demanding that the rest of the field not cite and address it. That's not ho…
Eric's draft contains an unusual statement that says "this work [...] may not be built upon without express permission of the author". To the extent that this refers to derivative works which substantially reuse the text of the paper, this is normal copyright law. To the extent that this refers to the use of scientific ideas or discoveries, this is not enforceable under US copyright law. Copyright cannot prevent anyone from citing or responding to a work. See, e.g., https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ33.pdf.
(I am an academic, not a lawyer.)
Re: The contrarian physics podcast subculture
#249Earlier quoted context omitted.
While we try to make things accessible to the public, the determination of what is "good" is ultimately made by experts. "The public" has a level of science literacy that is somewhat medieval (as in pre-Newtonian, and increasingly pre-germ theory), and while it's important to maintain political support, it's not reasonable to expect Joe Schmoe to be able to track the latest experimental results from CERN. In fact, it…
> While we try to make things accessible to the public, the determination of what is "good" is ultimately made by experts. No, it isn't. It's determined by whether the models make accurate predictions. The fact that in our society, science is viewed as an authority, where Scientists can pontificate as "experts" without having to back up their claims with a predictive track record, is a bug, not a feature. > "The publ…
And it's experts who speak the language well enough to understand what is being said. Fortunately, it's not a priesthood that is linked to your family or a caste or some wildly selective process. All you have to do is spend a few years studying (2-6 depending on the particularities). You can learn the language and basically that makes you an expert too.
What society do you live in where scientists' expertise is taken on face value and acted on without substantial pushback and criticism? I'd like to live there, maybe.
> means everyone has to suddenly turn their entire lives upside down
This happened. Starting over a century ago, and continuing ever since with increasing loudness, urgency, and accuracy. And yet. The US is making it harder to build solar and wind power.
Re: The contrarian physics podcast subculture
#250Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're arguing with an oversimplified model of the complaint about Weinstein. It's not that Weinstein has a theory that's orthogonal to mainstream physics, but rather the means with which he pursues the inquiry. He doesn't write real papers, when he released the GU paper he copyrighted it and claimed it as a "work of entertainment", in effect demanding that the rest of the field not cite and address it. That's not ho…
I agree with your point, but it's worth noting that scientific papers are normally and by default copyrighted works. (In some cases the author may assign the copyright to a publisher.) Eric's draft contains an unusual statement that says "this work [...] may not be built upon without express permission of the author". To the extent that this refers to derivative works which substantially reuse the text of the paper,…