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"Remove mentions of XSLT from the html spec"

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Re: "Remove mentions of XSLT from the html spec"

#541

Post by qingcharles »

goku12 wrote: post #437
dang wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These things land differently with different readers, of course, but "Google is killing the open web" does seem pretty baity to me. The combo of grand-claim and something-to-get-mad-about usually is. It doesn't take too large a set of provoked readers to get a large enough set of provoked commenters to bump a thread into flamewar mode.

Please take this as a point of discussion rather than as an argument. That title is something that I and many others would have come up with on our own without needing any provocation. In fact, the exact same thing has been said numerous times independently all over the net. There are so many instances that justify the assertion that you could make a very long list with the relevant HN stories alone. But that isn't t…

I don't see it as an easy problem for dang and team to solve. HN didn't flag the post, users dogpiled it. I think dang is right that the title smelled baity and for some reason a bunch of users just insta-flagged it without getting into the details. Moderation is hard. Good posts die unread.

Re: "Remove mentions of XSLT from the html spec"

#542

Post by danans »

pjmlp wrote: post #438
danans wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> WSL and other VMs are the Year of Desktop Linux finally coming true, nothing to do with Web. Just like the Linux VM on ChromeOS.

Which eventually will be a VM on top of WebAssembly, given the hype. https://webvm.io/

> Which eventually will be a VM on top of WebAssembly,

I'm not sure how that supports the argument that ChromeOS is only "the web". It's running a native VM for Linux today. What would be the advantage of porting it to WebAssembly?

Re: "Remove mentions of XSLT from the html spec"

#543

Post by bilog »

bawolff wrote: post #540
phatskat wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the link in the post you can scroll down to someone’s comment with a few links to XSLT in action. It’s been years since I’ve touched it, but clicking the congressional bill XML link and seeing a perfectly formatted and readable page reminded me of exactly why XSLT has a place. To do the same thing without it, you’d need some other engine to parse the XML, convert it to HTML, and then ensure the proper styles get a…

> To do the same thing without it, you’d need some other engine to parse the XML, convert it to HTML, and then ensure the proper styles get applied No, you can use directives with CSS to attach a css stylesheet directly to an xml file. CSS is not as flexible as xslt, but this seems to be very simple formatting which is well within what css is capable of.

Can CSS be used to produce plots from XML data?

https://wok.oblomov.eu/tecnologia/plotting-xslt/

https://wok.oblomov.eu/tecnologia/plotting-sparklines-xslt/

Re: "Remove mentions of XSLT from the html spec"

#544

Post by const_cast »

spankalee wrote: post #404
const_cast wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Did anybody bother checking with Microsoft? > Secondly, why is Firefox/Gecko given full weight for their vote when their marketshare is dwindling into irrelevancy? The juxtaposition of these two statements is very funny. Firefox actually develops a browser, Microsoft doesn't. That's why Firefox gets a say and Microsoft doesn't. Microsoft jumped off the browser game years ago. No, changing the search engine from Goo…

This is not true. Microsoft is participating in standards and implementing them in Blink.

I didn't know Microsoft contributed to chromium, although that makes some sense.

But my thoughts remain. Chromium IS NOT Microsofts browser.

Chromiums opinion might matter, which might include contributers from the open source community, which might then include some Microsoft engineers.

But Microsoft, as a whole, does not develop a browser so they don't have a seat. The seats are Firefox, Safari, and Chromium/Chrome/Blink.

Re: "Remove mentions of XSLT from the html spec"

#545

Post by const_cast »

saurik wrote: post #408
const_cast wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Did anybody bother checking with Microsoft? > Secondly, why is Firefox/Gecko given full weight for their vote when their marketshare is dwindling into irrelevancy? The juxtaposition of these two statements is very funny. Firefox actually develops a browser, Microsoft doesn't. That's why Firefox gets a say and Microsoft doesn't. Microsoft jumped off the browser game years ago. No, changing the search engine from Goo…

You make it sound like those two thoughts are incompatible in juxtaposition, but they are in fact perfectly consistent, even if you were correct that Microsoft isn't building anything, as the premise is that users matter more than elbow grease. The reason why you'd want to ask Microsoft is the same reason why you might not bother consulting Firefox: because Microsoft has actual users they represent, and Firefox does…

Right, sure, but this is a matter of implementation and maintenance burden.

Obviously the people doing nothing aren't a reliable source. They probably want the browser to cook your food and walk your dog, too.

That's why we ask the people actually writing the code that is being used.

Re: "Remove mentions of XSLT from the html spec"

#547

Post by youngtaff »

em-bee wrote: post #517
LegionMammal978 wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's only if the original document is an XHTML document that will have scripts loaded. Other XML documents, such as RSS feeds, will not have any support for JS, short of something silly like putting it in an iframe.

i didn't test it, but the stackoverflow answers suggested otherwise. are they wrong?

Perhaps you should have tried testing it before commenting?

Re: "Remove mentions of XSLT from the html spec"

#548

Post by em-bee »

youngtaff wrote: post #547
em-bee wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i didn't test it, but the stackoverflow answers suggested otherwise. are they wrong?

Perhaps you should have tried testing it before commenting?

if you know that the solution does not work, then just say so and maybe explain why, instead of being snarky.

all i did was to share a link to a resource. if you don't trust that resource you need to do your own testing. what ever i say, whether i tested it or not, doesn't add much more value. you can't trust my words any more than the resource i linked.

you asked half a dozen times in the last few days how a plain xml file can be transformed without xslt. and you claimed that xslt can be used to transform an rss feed.

well, guess what, i just tested this: an rss feed with the standard mimetype application/rss+xml doesn't load either an xsl stylesheet or javascript. to make that work you have to change the mimetype, and if you do that, both the xsl stylesheet or the javascript load. (just not both at the same time)

Re: "Remove mentions of XSLT from the html spec"

#549

Post by em-bee »

em-bee wrote: post #496
youngtaff wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But can it transform / format the XML?

why should it not? once loaded it should find the XML in the DOM and transform that any way you like.

for the record, i just tested that the loaded javascript can access the DOM.

Re: "Remove mentions of XSLT from the html spec"

#550

Post by em-bee »

ndriscoll wrote: post #274
JimDabell wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use content negotiation with static websites too. Apache has mod_negotiation, for example.

Assuming you have access to server configuration. XML/XSLT works anywhere you can host a static page.

it still depends on the mimetype those servers use to host the files.
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