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CEO pay and stock buybacks have soared at the largest low-wage corporations

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191–200 of 263 posts

Re: CEO pay and stock buybacks have soared at the largest low-wage corporations

#191

I did an exercise here: the average CEO salary of S&P 500 is around $20M. That's around $10B totally. Assume there are three executives - so thats around $30B annually. Lets go much further, lets multiply this by 10 to account for top 5000 companies (in practice it would be more like top 20,000 because the lower companies have much lower CEO salaries). There are around 300 million people in USA. By redistributing the…

Now do this exercise only for the workwers of each of those companies. If they're generating billions value, they should get a fairer share of the profits.

Around $2000 per year.

Re: CEO pay and stock buybacks have soared at the largest low-wage corporations

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats 3600 for a family of four. 5% of median household income in a country where most have zero savings.

The impact of the whole C suite of top 20,000 companies in USA would be much reduced incentives. These are the same companies that are making products that workers purchase from. Sure 5% extra money per family. Do you really think 5% increase in income would change the savings scenario? The median real disposable income increased by more than 20% over the years. I don't think savings have changed.

I think we could do with some different incentives.

A lot of the readers here have worked at mega corps and seen what the incentives are in the real world, its not Ayn Rand superman doing the best thing for the company because their interests are aligned.

Re: CEO pay and stock buybacks have soared at the largest low-wage corporations

#193
post #95

I'd likely be progressive if American progressivism wasn't so economically illiterate (as opposed to say Piketty). The vindictive themes make me think that it's motivated more by envy than a genuine desire to improve society. The CEO to worker compensation ratio is a useless metric. There is absolutely no reason why Starbucks should be punished for hiring more workers over a company like Nvidia that hires relatively…

You're conflating managerial economics with macroeconomics. CEOs at publicly traded companies aren't hired to enhance the long-term productive capacity of the firm ("growing the economy"); they're there to calm investor nerves and make the stock sexy. Those only have a very slight correlation to the overall health of the economy. Microsoft grew revenue and profits under Steve Ballmer, but the stock stayed flat, so he had to go.

It'd be great if public companies could grow market share by beating competitors by with better prices or service, but that takes long-term strategic planning and no surprises from government, activist investors, suppliers and employees. CEOs don't have that kind of time, so they reach for familiar tools: restructuring (mass firings), selling off parts, and yes, share buybacks, because these tools move the needle that matters. During their quarterly earnings calls, they answer to Wall Street analysts, who represent the interests of shareholders, not employees or economic policymakers.

As for "economic illiteracy", the very concept is nonsensical. Every economy is structured differently and what's "sensible" changes over time. If you asked a US economist whether they thought zero interest rate policy (2008-2022) was a good idea, they'd think you were talking about a communist society with a desperate government trying to manufacture growth. But this is how every western economy largely operated after the Great Recession. They'd probably take a dim view of venture capital as well, considering its portfolio strategy ignores operational profit targets in favor of IPO windfalls. That's how you end up with abominations like SPACs, where companies can go public with a fraction of the financial transparency that would otherwise be required.

Re: CEO pay and stock buybacks have soared at the largest low-wage corporations

#194
post #95

I'd likely be progressive if American progressivism wasn't so economically illiterate (as opposed to say Piketty). The vindictive themes make me think that it's motivated more by envy than a genuine desire to improve society. The CEO to worker compensation ratio is a useless metric. There is absolutely no reason why Starbucks should be punished for hiring more workers over a company like Nvidia that hires relatively…

>if American progressivism wasn't so economically illiterate

Economists by and large tend to be academically and principally in support of many progressive positions so I'm not sure your statement can be read any other way than "I don't like perspectives that disagree with my primed and preconceived beliefs"

Which is an exceedingly common phenomena in a post-truth world. But it's quite obvious; just want to point that out to you.

For decades, professional American economists vote for the democratic party at a rate greatly exceeding the general population and profess support for ideological progressive positions that is also at a notable rate higher than the general population.

You know, there's also something to say about how people invoke the term "economics" in their own personal posts as some sort of grandstanding dog-whistle but we'd be here for hours.

Re: CEO pay and stock buybacks have soared at the largest low-wage corporations

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All long term shareholders who support the company own an extra 10% of the firm with nothing out of pocket. They own an extra 11%. Not 10%. 1/100 versus 1/90

I hate how fractions work this way. We need to call up the math people and ask them to change it.

Can you tell them to get rid of compounding interest while they are at it?

Re: CEO pay and stock buybacks have soared at the largest low-wage corporations

#196
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buybacks are just a more tax-efficient way to issue dividends to shareholders (dividend issuance is a taxable event and at short-term rates, buybacks raise the stock price and those gains aren't taxable until you sell, at which point it may be long-term cap gains). It's reasonable to be upset about the fact that this is arguably a tax dodge! But all of the other criticism of buybacks apply equally to dividends which…

Fundamentally this is the corporation saying it doesn't have a market-beating way to reinvest this capital Isn’t that the crux of it, though? Running a company into the ground by not investing in growth or R&D? We give tax credits to corporations to incentivize R&D spending

That was considered a tax loophole by the last administration so the R&D exception was allowed to expire in 2022 and only recently restored by the new admin.

Re: CEO pay and stock buybacks have soared at the largest low-wage corporations

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think CEOs have gamed the compensation committees? I think the major institutional investors don't get involved cuz they're major institutional investors, and other investors don't have enough power to influence the compensation committee.

Yeah but why does the board approve those salaries if they don't expect to get more out of it?

What makes you think a typical corporate board actually acts in the interest of its shareholders?

Re: CEO pay and stock buybacks have soared at the largest low-wage corporations

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think CEOs have gamed the compensation committees? I think the major institutional investors don't get involved cuz they're major institutional investors, and other investors don't have enough power to influence the compensation committee.

Yeah but why does the board approve those salaries if they don't expect to get more out of it?

[dead]

Re: CEO pay and stock buybacks have soared at the largest low-wage corporations

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you measure 'profit' as 'how much does the net worth of our owners go up', stock buybacks make a lot of sense. This seems like a particularly terrible measure of success for everyone but those owners.

This is too circular. Profit is just revenue - cost. The stock values depend on current and future risk adjusted profit.

In theory. In practice the stock prices of many large companies seems to be completely decoupled from any thing even resembling economic reality.

Does anyone really think Tesla is worth more than every single other automaker combined? That’s what the stock price (market cap) is saying.

Re: CEO pay and stock buybacks have soared at the largest low-wage corporations

#200
post #95

I'd likely be progressive if American progressivism wasn't so economically illiterate (as opposed to say Piketty). The vindictive themes make me think that it's motivated more by envy than a genuine desire to improve society. The CEO to worker compensation ratio is a useless metric. There is absolutely no reason why Starbucks should be punished for hiring more workers over a company like Nvidia that hires relatively…

>if American progressivism wasn't so economically illiterate Economists by and large tend to be academically and principally in support of many progressive positions so I'm not sure your statement can be read any other way than "I don't like perspectives that disagree with my primed and preconceived beliefs" Which is an exceedingly common phenomena in a post-truth world. But it's quite obvious; just want to point tha…

You assume that I'm conservative, but I'm not. I'm a Democrat who is growing increasingly concerned about their voting base demanding populism. AOC, Sanders, Warren are progressives. I don't consider establishment Democrats progressive.
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