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The contrarian physics podcast subculture

timothynguyen.org

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Re: The contrarian physics podcast subculture

#141

Post by the__alchemist »

jordanpg wrote: post #6

Related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oipI5TQ54tA "Professor Dave" interviews 6 physicists regarding Hossenfelder including one guy whose name you particle physicists in particular might recognize.

This isn't helping the case: Of all the players involved in this drama in the article, the video it references, and this thread, Professor Dave comes across as the worst. He strikes me as smug, arrogant, and intellectually dishonest. He also seems to have an unpleasant personality, from how he reacts to criticism on the internet.

Dave is a bully.

Re: The contrarian physics podcast subculture

#142

Post by simpaticoder »

dang wrote: post #27

At first I downweighted this article the way we usually do with internet dramas, but on a second look, I think it perhaps deserves better. However, the title is too high-octane (too sensational and personality-focused) to have a good effect on an HN thread. I've therefore changed it to a different phrase from the article body, which is more neutral and more about the underlying phenomena. It's not a perfect swap, so…

I would have kept it down-weighted. This is a drama that can have no satisfying resolution, and offers little unique insight into the world. The topic itself, mathematical physics, is so rarified that only a few hundred people in the world can understand the facts of the case. What's left is a strange superposition of emotionally resonant stories - one where you empathize with the expert being railroaded by a psuedoscientist and his allies (the TFA), and the other where a brilliant outsider's ideas are ignored and punished by prejudiced insiders (Weinstein's narrative). The peanut gallery weighs in with vim and vigor, rather than just saying "I don't know", and all it does is tell you which story they like in that moment.

As an aside, scientists are highly motivated to take credible outsider ideas seriously because the cost/benefit makes a lot of sense (e.g. Max Planck taking Einstein seriously). The motive to suppress Weinstein doesn't make sense, regardless of the underlying claims. But really, I don't know.

Re: The contrarian physics podcast subculture

#144

Post by dpc050505 »

dustingetz wrote: post #74
cycomanic wrote: post #46

I have written previously about Sabine. I think it's fascinating to follow her trajectory. Initially I quite liked her show and my impression was that it gave valuable insights and critique of some branches of modern theoretical physics. At some point I noticed that her shows were starting to significantly diverge from her area of expertise and she was weighing in on much broader topics, something in her early shows…

i kinda think we should blame the youtube alg for this, the algs set incentives which shape behavior at scale, and it’s not like one can make a living doing actual physics these days

I have two friends who are in trade school after studying physics. They're applying physics everyday. They'll make a perfectly adequate living in a few months and meanwhile they're both getting paid to go to school.

Re: The contrarian physics podcast subculture

#145

Post by tombert »

cycomanic wrote: post #67
boxed wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Something I've noticed is people who are extremely talented in one field will sometimes think they're extremely talented in every field. I'm pretty sure Sabine has made this exact statement too.

Exactly she used to say this all the time and now she's weighing in on topics ranging from EVs to nuclear power to 5G causing cancer (yes she did a show on that, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOvAZPHDogs and she was peddling to the "sceptic" crowd by saying that "she doesn't have any reason to believe that it's is unsafe, but ..." and pointing to doctors saying smoking was save in the 50s).

Yeah, I remember the 5G one and it kind of upset me.

Obviously people can have opinions on anything, and of course you can't be an expert on everything, but I feel like what Sabine does goes beyond "having an opinion"; she seems to have pivoted into fear-mongering about academia. I don't love academia either, and I have my criticisms of how it is run in the US, but I think a lot of my complaints can largely be explained by incompetence at the administrative level, not a grand conspiracy to control narratives or suppress questions or anything like that.

Granted, the research I've worked on has been pretty apolitical [1], mostly mathy computer science stuff, so maybe I was never at a risk of my research being suppressed, but I certainly don't think that Eric Weinstein is being censored by no one taking his attempt at Unified Field Theory seriously.

[1] Yes I know everything can be political. You don't need to explain this to me.

Re: The contrarian physics podcast subculture

#146

Post by tsongas4 »

tptacek wrote: post #130
0x303 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The term was coined by Eric Weinstein in 2018. Coincidence or intentional? Either way, nice

That particular meaning of "audience capture" might be Weinstein's coinage, but the term itself predates that; you can just search Google Scholar to confirm.

Mathematicians went nuts trying to invalidate Gödel. Imo similar phenomena to our senses; chasing an endlessly big numbers with no real outcome but growing some number that ostensibly represents an audience but who knows if its real or just numbers on a screen.

Religious belief is same biological phenom, chasing endless propagation of the religion.

Minds go fractal. It's like Snowcrash but they’re not blank, they speak in tongues, circumlocuting gibberish.

Re: The contrarian physics podcast subculture

#147

Post by SquibblesRedux »

At the risk of sounding dismissive -- this is all drama that amounts to nothing more than Internet entertainment. Legitimate claims of harm should be heard in court. Legitimate scientific debate should be hashed out at conferences or in peer-reviewed journals. Drama posted to an audience of 8 billion people, hosted in personal blogs and on YouTube videos, seems like soap opera entertainment at best and childish behavior at worst.

Just my humble opinion as a bystander looking in.

Re: The contrarian physics podcast subculture

#148

Post by antognini »

As a counterbalance to the "renegade" character of these kinds of podcasts I do recommend Sean Carroll's Mindscape podcast. He does a good job representing the "establishment" position in physics, so to speak.

A good episode to start with is "The Crisis in Physics" in which he (unusually?) argues that there is no real crisis in physics.

https://www.preposterousuniverse.com/podcast/2023/07/31/245-...

Re: The contrarian physics podcast subculture

#149

Post by eecc »

cycomanic wrote: post #125
mc32 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand "establishment" science get their hairs up when she criticizes them, so there is that. She has had valid criticisms of the industry -and it is an entrenched industry like others. Basically the momentum that keeps something going beyond its usefulness but keeping it going keeps the money rolling in. I admire her willingness to make those people irked even though it brings flak along with it.

Yes very admirable to dishonestly misrepresent scientific progress, and making millions by accusing scientists to steal public money by working on things that she calls bullshit (based on her misrepresentation).

But does she make millions? I highly doubt that

Re: The contrarian physics podcast subculture

#150

Post by hermitcrab »

“But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.” ― Carl Sagan, Broca's Brain: Reflections on the Romance of Science
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