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Home Depot sued for 'secretly' using facial recognition at self-checkouts

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Re: Home Depot sued for 'secretly' using facial recognition at self-checkouts

#101

Post by gblargg »

AngryData wrote: post #51
ProllyInfamous wrote: post #40

Home Depot's self-checkouts are using this facial ID to build/maintain their shoplifting database — this tracks thefts by the same person across multiple visits, and is used over time to build up a case against errant self-checkout-ers (i.e. to get them above a theft threshhold, at which point prosecution becomes easier). There is also CCTV AI (whether artificial intelligence, or actually indians) which can intervene…

Im not sure we should allow such premeditated charge stacking, it is just further weaponizing the law and fueling our prison industrial complex for zero gain to society. Who is to say many of those people wouldn't have stopped after being caught and charged the first time? Imagine if cops sat on the side of the road not pulling people over, just recording minor traffic offenses in a file, and then a year or so later…

I thought it was because the stores can't press charges if it's a small thing, so the only way they can bring any action is to build a case.

Re: Home Depot sued for 'secretly' using facial recognition at self-checkouts

#102

Post by moomoo11 »

rapnie wrote: post #100
moomoo11 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would I want to wait in line for 5 minutes, when I could be on my way? Life goes by fast. I’d rather spend those small minutes lost with my loved ones or back to doing things I enjoy more. Over my lifetime that’s a lot of time. I only shop in person at Whole Foods because it’s two blocks away. Every Tuesday they have some nice discounts and it’s fun to walk the aisles. Otherwise I just deliver groceries from Cost…

You wait in line because there weren't enough checkout points in the first place. Poor customer service by your supermarket. It is funny, in the supermarket near me people are coralled into a kind of scan barracks where underage teen guardians frisk their shoppings regularly. There is only one checkout with personnel still operating it. What regularly happens now is that there's a big crowd waiting for a free scan po…

At least at my Whole Foods there are two cashiers and 6 self checkouts. Tuesdays are usually busy.

Both have lines and the self is always faster. I’m that guy and I timed it myself when I was curious. Like I said. I don’t get it.

They run a business. I just need some stuff and I’m outta there. I don’t really care beyond that exchange.

Re: Home Depot sued for 'secretly' using facial recognition at self-checkouts

#103

Post by gblargg »

idiotsecant wrote: post #99
47282847 wrote: post #92

I make it a point not to use self-checkout systems because I want to support human interaction even if basic, and contribute to jobs for humans. And cash (most self-checkouts here are card-only). I understand it’s a losing battle on all fronts.

Do you also wish that elevators would go back to having attendants that drive you to your floor? When a job doesn't need people, keeping a person there is not some kind of noble gesture. It's annoying.

Or those backward states where you must let the gas station attendant pump your gas.

Re: Home Depot sued for 'secretly' using facial recognition at self-checkouts

#104

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

Ekaros wrote: post #56
AngryData wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im not sure we should allow such premeditated charge stacking, it is just further weaponizing the law and fueling our prison industrial complex for zero gain to society. Who is to say many of those people wouldn't have stopped after being caught and charged the first time? Imagine if cops sat on the side of the road not pulling people over, just recording minor traffic offenses in a file, and then a year or so later…

Seems like proper punishment is only way to get deterrent effect. Or the courts to do their job. So to me this sounds like workable way, stack up the habitual offenders and send them to jail for a few months to few years setting them on straight path.

No, that's been disproved. Most people don't consider that they'll be caught and so the penalty isn't relevant to their thought process. What does deter is a high likelihood of being caught - so a small fine will be more effective if the detection/enforcement is sufficient. Also, it's often not feasible to tie up the courts and jails with minor offenders (e.g. speeding, using a bus lane etc).

Re: Home Depot sued for 'secretly' using facial recognition at self-checkouts

#105

Post by phito »

rapnie wrote: post #100
moomoo11 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would I want to wait in line for 5 minutes, when I could be on my way? Life goes by fast. I’d rather spend those small minutes lost with my loved ones or back to doing things I enjoy more. Over my lifetime that’s a lot of time. I only shop in person at Whole Foods because it’s two blocks away. Every Tuesday they have some nice discounts and it’s fun to walk the aisles. Otherwise I just deliver groceries from Cost…

You wait in line because there weren't enough checkout points in the first place. Poor customer service by your supermarket. It is funny, in the supermarket near me people are coralled into a kind of scan barracks where underage teen guardians frisk their shoppings regularly. There is only one checkout with personnel still operating it. What regularly happens now is that there's a big crowd waiting for a free scan po…

Myeah I think you're just going to badly managed stores. Here I just scan my groceries while putting them in my bag. Then I go to self checkout, put back the scanner and pay. It takes about one minute from entering the self checkout to leaving it and there is never any line.

Re: Home Depot sued for 'secretly' using facial recognition at self-checkouts

#106

Post by hdgvhicv »

fluoridation wrote: post #59
widforss wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're describing is essentially the exact point system used for traffic infractions in many countries over the world. Driving 10 km/h above the speed limit? No biggie, you pay a fine. Do it three times? We take your license.

No, not "do it three times". "Get fined for it three times." That's the key difference; there's feedback from the system that's supposed to act as a corrective. What's being discussed here would be taking away someone's license sight unseen, with no previous lesser punishment having been administered.

In the U.K. you get points on a license for being caught speeding (and other offence). Typically 3.

Knock 12 points up over 3 years and you lose your license.

The problem is the time it takes from being caught to getting the letter can be a couple of weeks. You could literally go from 0 points to license loss for driving 10 miles on an empty road with changeable speed limits and have no idea until a week or two later when you get 4 letters arrive.

Now until the court takes away your license you’re still allowed to drive, but it gives you no chance to change your behaviour.

Re: Home Depot sued for 'secretly' using facial recognition at self-checkouts

#107

Post by gblargg »

richwater wrote: post #13
bgwalter wrote: post #12

Don't use self-checkouts. You do all the work, slower than the cashier, and are treated like cattle. Often there is a supervisor breathing down your neck and demanding the receipt before the exit doors open. Now there is facial recognition.

> slower than the cashier...Often there is a supervisor breathing down your neck Not sure what stores you're going to go but this is nowhere near my experience.

When I first started using self-checkout that was my experience, slow and annoying. That went away after about ten times. I'll trade a little annoyance for an extra 5-10 minutes of my time.

Re: Home Depot sued for 'secretly' using facial recognition at self-checkouts

#108

Post by hdgvhicv »

beaviskhan wrote: post #32
JohnFen wrote: post #9

I have developed an extreme distrust of self-checkout systems generally, in part because of the risk of this sort of thing. As a result, I simply don't use them at all anymore.

I don't use them when it's an option - but Home Depot in particular often has zero actual cashiers. They've always got a couple people standing around in self checkout to assist when the system (inevitably?) doesn't work properly, though...

If home depot wanted to reduce shoplifting, perhaps they should go back to employing cashiers.

Re: Home Depot sued for 'secretly' using facial recognition at self-checkouts

#109

Post by rapnie »

moomoo11 wrote: post #98
rapnie wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. And indeed a losing battle. Society is being dehumanized, and humans embrace this trend. Maybe it is because it is a means to face away of all the big challenges humanity faces. Being social in complex society requires skill and effort, causes stress. Facing life challenges, and the doom and gloom. The easy way is to flee that, to extract oneself, and technology is bliss here.

Why would I want to wait in line for 5 minutes, when I could be on my way? Life goes by fast. I’d rather spend those small minutes lost with my loved ones or back to doing things I enjoy more. Over my lifetime that’s a lot of time. I only shop in person at Whole Foods because it’s two blocks away. Every Tuesday they have some nice discounts and it’s fun to walk the aisles. Otherwise I just deliver groceries from Cost…

The bigger point I wanted to make is how pervasively small social interactions with other people are automated away all across the board. At the McDonalds you go through the menu on the monitor at the entrance, or used your mobile. No social exchange at the counter anymore. In the cinema you do the same. AI is going to break the bonds online by indirect agent intermediaries. People become isolated in small in-groups. Until in your local community you sail lonely with your family through a sea full of strangers. You probably can't talk about community anymore then. What is the societal impact of the loss of all these micro interactions? How can we have a tolerant society if we are so separate and individualist?
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