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The End of Handwriting

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Re: The End of Handwriting

#61

Post by graboid »

foo42 wrote: post #45
benrutter wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any tips for lefties? I find in very difficult to avoid complete smudgification of everything I write with a fountain pen, since it takes so much longer for the ink to dry.

I write with my hand below the line to avoid smudging. A consequence of this is my pen meets the page at quite a shallow angle which I find is perfect for fountain pens but scratchy with ball points. These days I do very little hand writing and find my traditional pose (described above) causes hand cramps, but I don't know if that's specific to the odd way I write or if all poses would when so out of practice

Did you learn that handwriting pose already as a child? If not, how hard was it to teach yourself writing that way?

Re: The End of Handwriting

#62

Post by nottorp »

Swizec wrote: post #19
elros wrote: post #10

PSA for people with "bad cursive handwriting" but who would like to improve it: Write with FOUNTAIN PENS. Ideally on thicker paper, with something soft below (like more paper for example). Different writing systems evolved alongside different utensils. Cursive evolved to be written with a quill or a fountain pen. Ballpoint pens are an amazing invention and they have their place, but they optimize for price and practi…

> In France, back when I went to school, not sure now, though I hope it hasn't changed, as a child, you'd only be allowed to use fountain pens. Kids learning to write have constantly stained hands while they learn to use it properly, almost as a rite of passage. I'm very thankful to have learned it like that. In Slovenia, back when I went to school, we all learned with fountain pens and cursive. From 1st to 8th grade…

> it turns out that anything I write down by hand gets etched into my memory forever

That's an exam cramming technique regardless of handwriting quality :)

Re: The End of Handwriting

#63

Post by bayindirh »

tbrownaw wrote: post #27
elros wrote: post #10

PSA for people with "bad cursive handwriting" but who would like to improve it: Write with FOUNTAIN PENS. Ideally on thicker paper, with something soft below (like more paper for example). Different writing systems evolved alongside different utensils. Cursive evolved to be written with a quill or a fountain pen. Ballpoint pens are an amazing invention and they have their place, but they optimize for price and practi…

No, fountain pens have a "cool" factor and can be made for decorative stuff, but that's it. Sure the super cheap bic pens that come in boxes of 100 aren't great, but that's because they're cheap (besides being inexpensive). Something like those G2 gel pens that are also available everywhere for not very much (fairly inexpensive, but not pejorative-cheap) these days work just fine.

> No, fountain pens have a "cool" factor and can be made for decorative stuff, but that's it.

I would not disagree more. A fountain pen writes with zero pressure. In contrast modern rollerballs and gel pens have a little spring to prevent contact leaking. Uni might have a patent on that. Famously Pilot's Hi-Techpoint pens doesn't have that and it stains the place where it touches.

A fountain pen can outlast any disposable pen, allows you to write 5x longer without any strain, promote better writing quality and writing habits, and lives with you and becomes tuned to your handwriting in a couple of months to a year.

Moreover, hand writing is better for your brain and concentration than typing on a glowing box which strains your eyes, hands and brain with constant distractions.

Re: The End of Handwriting

#64

Post by everettp »

tbrownaw wrote: post #27
elros wrote: post #10

PSA for people with "bad cursive handwriting" but who would like to improve it: Write with FOUNTAIN PENS. Ideally on thicker paper, with something soft below (like more paper for example). Different writing systems evolved alongside different utensils. Cursive evolved to be written with a quill or a fountain pen. Ballpoint pens are an amazing invention and they have their place, but they optimize for price and practi…

No, fountain pens have a "cool" factor and can be made for decorative stuff, but that's it. Sure the super cheap bic pens that come in boxes of 100 aren't great, but that's because they're cheap (besides being inexpensive). Something like those G2 gel pens that are also available everywhere for not very much (fairly inexpensive, but not pejorative-cheap) these days work just fine.

that may be the case for your particular writing style, but it is not universal.

i have a mild orthopaedic problem, and i found, in my twenties after years of struggling with disposable pens, that a fountain pen allowed me to write more lightly and fluidly on the page with the result that my words per minute more than doubled. my writing is still ugly, but it is vastly faster and a bit more legible.

fountain pens are not only for "decorative stuff" but have actual functional advantages due to their mechanical dynamics

Re: The End of Handwriting

#65

Post by bayindirh »

ljlolel wrote: post #42
Swizec wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In France, back when I went to school, not sure now, though I hope it hasn't changed, as a child, you'd only be allowed to use fountain pens. Kids learning to write have constantly stained hands while they learn to use it properly, almost as a rite of passage. I'm very thankful to have learned it like that. In Slovenia, back when I went to school, we all learned with fountain pens and cursive. From 1st to 8th grade…

The trick is to realize that you never even needed to write it at all

Writing while thinking is more productive than prompting a Markov chain. Also it's free and benefits your brain.

Re: The End of Handwriting

#66

Post by KaiserPro »

I fucking hate hand writing. It stems from a formally diagnosed issue (no not dyslexia.)

It held me back during school, Nobody could read my writing, therefore I was thick as shit. All my exams were hand written, so they needed to have my exams transcribed by someone who could read my writing. (I could dictate my answers, but that required a different "statement", and dictation was expensive so the local authority said no. [its also a very hard skill to pic up on your own])

For normal school work I had access to an emate 300 which was great, but it was down to me to learn to type at any speed.

I got mediocre grades.

Had my mum not been middle class and frankly karen like in pursuing all of the options, I'd probably be in jail right now.

That being said, had I not learnt to hand write, it would have fucked me even more, as my fine motor skills would have been non existent.

(I also now use a wacom tablet as my main pointing device, which is ironic.)

Re: The End of Handwriting

#67

Post by odyssey7 »

As a CS student, the way I learned things I needed to memorize was by writing it down / copying / summarizing on paper and studying from that.

It’s a little ridiculous to reframe that a significant part of my education was an exercise in copying information over by hand, but it’s just true that this method reliably worked for me.

Also: my reading speed was ungodly slow. I think I considered it typical to spend 3 hours on 10 textbook pages. Sometimes it took longer. But the information stuck, and I knew it well.

Re: The End of Handwriting

#68

Post by jbeninger »

postepowanieadm wrote: post #52
en wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I am mainly left-handed, I learned to like writing with a nice wooden pencil, like Faber-Castell, and a sharpener. Then, if it is something serious and if it is possible to use a felt pen, I use Staedtler or Faber-Castell felt pens in different sizes. I hate ballpoint pens.

Have you tried a good fountain pen? A good nib makes all the difference.

The thing about being left handed is your hand will naturally drag across the fresh ink of a fountain pen.

Re: The End of Handwriting

#69

Post by voidUpdate »

elros wrote: post #10

PSA for people with "bad cursive handwriting" but who would like to improve it: Write with FOUNTAIN PENS. Ideally on thicker paper, with something soft below (like more paper for example). Different writing systems evolved alongside different utensils. Cursive evolved to be written with a quill or a fountain pen. Ballpoint pens are an amazing invention and they have their place, but they optimize for price and practi…

As a left handed person, fountain pens are basically a no-go. What actually helped improve my handwriting was not doing cursive, but writing each letter individually, which forces me to pause between each letter. Still using the lower case forms (though I did try all caps for a while), but just forcing myself to slow down. Still have problems with 9 vs 4 though

Re: The End of Handwriting

#70

Post by logifail »

odyssey7 wrote: post #67

As a CS student, the way I learned things I needed to memorize was by writing it down / copying / summarizing on paper and studying from that. It’s a little ridiculous to reframe that a significant part of my education was an exercise in copying information over by hand, but it’s just true that this method reliably worked for me. Also: my reading speed was ungodly slow. I think I considered it typical to spend 3 hour…

> it’s just true that this method reliably worked for me

It's not just you. My kids didn't want to hear it, but they're coming round to the benefits of writing notes during their learning.

Why Writing by Hand Is Better for Memory and Learning https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-writing-by-ha...

Why writing by hand beats typing for thinking and learning https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2024/05/11/1250529...

Advantage of Handwriting Over Typing on Learning Words https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8222525/

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