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Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

zenobiapay.com

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Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#271

Post by wat10000 »

maxglute wrote: post #235
wat10000 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

QR codes feel like such a step backwards compared to NFC. The UX with current mobile OSes is not good. And if you require an app, or even worse an active data connection, well, I much prefer a quick double-click of my phone’s side button and then putting it near the payment terminal. And I’m really skeptical about security. NFC is vulnerable to relay attacks and QR codes can be secured by using one-time codes or roll…

QR code is more alternative to cash. Anyone can setup QR payment vs getting NFC POS terminal. IMO when you can reasonably expect day to day to be completely cashless down to smallest of merchant, it's more convenient compromise vs NFC + cash.

That’s unrelated to the actual communication technology. You can have QR code systems that don’t allow everyone to take payments. You can take NFC payments with a newer smartphone these days.

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#272

Post by eszed »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #149
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why you take both but make the credit card customer eat the fees. Then many customers will save you (i.e. themselves) the money by paying cash and the ones that insist on using a credit card are free to pay what it actually costs.

Why do I almost never see a cash discount like this in practice? An I shopping in the wrong places? Or does something else prevent it?

I've sometimes been able to get a cash discount by asking for it. This won't work with corporate places, obviously, but sole-proprietor sorts of shops - like my local car mechanic, and a print shop I used to use occasionally - have been receptive. I think they discounted by ~5% in each case. Did I suspect they're keeping the cash off-book? Of course. Did I care? Not at all. I don't expect their big-business competitors are paying tax, either.

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#273

Post by OutOfHere »

ceejayoz wrote: post #268
OutOfHere wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no incidence of any stablecoin wallet being frozen without the government's order. To do so would invite a lawsuit. As for what Tether chose to do in the past, that's irrelevant, as the legislation now requires it. The only grandfathered stablecoin that doesn't have freezes is DAI, but it has poor liquidity in comparison.

https://tether.to/en/legal/ > Tether may suspend or terminate your access to the Site or any of the Services, freeze any Tether Tokens held by you, or terminate your Tether Token Wallet, as required by applicable Law or where Tether, in its sole discretion, determines it is prudent to do so or where you have violated, breached, or acted in a manner inconsistent with any provision of these Terms or Applicable Law. The…

Never has Tether frozen a wallet without an order from the government.

If some crazy person decides to attack the Tether network, then yes, it would make sense for Tether to freeze their wallet.

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#274

Post by rprend »

nottorp wrote: post #56
nima999 wrote: post #53

I totally disagree with “We proposed merchants "split the difference" in fee savings with their customer, giving customers ~1% in at-checkout "cashback". But this is just a worse version of credit card rewards.” As a shopper, if I know that a SMB is saving 1% or even 2% on merchant fees, I would gladly choose that option, even if I miss out on rewards for that purchase.

The thing is, Visa and MC are doing just fine(tm) on countries where their cut is limited by law to less than 1%. Everything else is just pure profit, no matter who runs it.

There are no countries which limit Visa and Mastercard’s cut. Visa’s cut is the same ~.14% in the US, Europe, and everywhere else.

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#275

Post by eszed »

vidarh wrote: post #139
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Average cash handling cost is typically estimated in the range of 4%-15% I think the assumption is they declare only a portion of their cash receipts.

I think that is commonly the reason why some businesses do offer discounts, but note the person above replied to "but for rules-following merchants taking cash isn't any cheaper than paying the credit card fees" which seems to have specifically anticipated exactly that.

Yes, exactly. The business team at my (rules-following) company were ecstatic when municipalities around us began disallowing cash payments during COVID. Taking cash is, for us, directly 2-3% (and actually more, if you count labor, which is difficult to track) more costly than the vig on credit cards.

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#276

Post by rprend »

ttoinou wrote: post #121
soared wrote: post #2

Super interesting read! I work in payments for context and see tons of different payment methods every day. People tend to find a payment method they like, and really only ever use that one method. It’s very hard to get someone to switch - even if an alternative is better. It’s just so ingrained to swipe that same card, click the same autofill button, etc. Digital wallets did somehow over come this, and those would b…

The best players to disrupt Visa Mastercard duopoly would rather be a consortium of payment processors such as Shopify / Stripe / Google Pay / Apple Pay and banks taking in sandwhich Visa and Mastercard (where the money is stored, where the money is spent)

Stripe has pay-by-bank they are pushing with Stripe Link, by making it users’ default payment method. They get terrible conversion, though if they could it would make them massively profitable. Shopify has ShopPay which means they take home a good portion of the fee on every transaction.

Apple Pay takes a higher cut on payments than Visa does (.15% vs .14%). They don’t bother with pay by bank, though, probably because of the underwriting.

All of these companies ARE competing on payments

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#277

Post by rprend »

lelanthran wrote: post #118
soared wrote: post #2

Super interesting read! I work in payments for context and see tons of different payment methods every day. People tend to find a payment method they like, and really only ever use that one method. It’s very hard to get someone to switch - even if an alternative is better. It’s just so ingrained to swipe that same card, click the same autofill button, etc. Digital wallets did somehow over come this, and those would b…

> Tough problem. You need a Jony Ive on your team to help solve it. I don't think so. A Jony Ive will not be in a position to solve the actual problem - what use is a non-universal payment mechanism to consumers and to retailers? I read the linked page and don't see answers to the main adoption problem: how is the purchaser supposed to pay? 1. Purchaser has to download the app? Okay, but purchaser already has a few e…

1. App Clips meant no app download required- it’s already on your phone 2. No funding of an account required. There was no account required. You do a “connect your account with Plaid” once then the connection is stored in the secure enclave on your iphone. To confirm a transaction you just hit okay then the money is debited from your bank account 3. We were for online ecommerce for specifically this reason. Much easier to deploy a javascript package than a new POS. That said we were working with in person POS’s

But these concerns met was not enough

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#278

Post by rprend »

crote wrote: post #257
FredPret wrote: post #230

Let me say first of all that the card networks do great work enabling commerce by being lightning-fast and generally secure. I can securely complete transactions and subscriptions with ~anyone on the planet in mere seconds. But holy cow do they have large margins. 40-50%! The profit growth charts on these two are a sight to behold. http://valustox.com/MA http://valustox.com/V The situation is simply begging for disru…

> Let me say first of all that the card networks do great work enabling commerce by being lightning-fast and generally secure. A lot of that is smoke and mirrors. They give a very fast pinky promise of payment, but it usually takes several days to become irrevocable. Similarly, it has taken decades for them to implement any form of genuine security, and even today the main form of fraud protection is... simply having…

Card network payments are NOT irrevocable after a few days. They are revocable for 60 days. This “pinky promise” is not a technical limitation, it is US law: Reg E for “electronic funds transfers” and Reg Z for credit payments. These are for consumer protection, and one of the reasons why payments is hard to compete in the US. Reg Z in particular is far stronger consumer protection than any other country
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