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The forgotten meaning of "jerk"

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Re: The forgotten meaning of "jerk"

#61

Post by mattpallissard »

cloudfudge wrote: post #44
sugarpimpdorsey wrote: post #18

It's a good time as any to remind everyone that The Jerk is still one of the funniest movies ever made. It could never be made today, and I suggest you pick up a copy if you've never seen it.

I watched it again recently because someone I knew had never seen it. It's actually not very funny anymore. I am still amused at a lot of the jokes in it, but more in an academic sense because I remember how funny it was. There's a lot of stuff in it that's really funny on paper but just doesn't make you actually laugh anymore. Comedy doesn't really age that well, and I believe that it's because what surprises us and…

I agree most of it doesn't, especially if it's about current events or captures the feeling of the era.

My Cousin Vinnie is an example that holds up still. No current events, no racist jokes, just typical social interactions that are still relevant.

Re: The forgotten meaning of "jerk"

#62

Post by Chris2048 »

permo-w wrote: post #36
handsclean wrote: post #13

I wonder if it used to be that people largely weren’t on the same page, and didn’t know it. It’s not like people consult dictionaries to learn what slang means, or even usually ask somebody, and the definitions are related enough that responses usually don’t distinguish them. I’ve noticed it’s not uncommon online that a post’s likes are split between opposing interpretations, like agreeing with its politics vs seeing…

the British slang version of the word "cheers" is a very good example of this. I can tell you for absolute certain that the most people use the word "cheers" to mean "thanks", but if you go online and look up the definition, you will be told it also means goodbye, which it really doesn't, but I think this arises from the fact that it's a bit more relaxed form of thanks, so people frequently say it as thank you at the…

Ok, but you can also use "thanks" as a goodbye. Consider ending a phone call, maybe "thanks" is for whatever they called about, but it's effectively "goodbye" before hanging up.

Re: The forgotten meaning of "jerk"

#63

Post by smelendez »

johnfn wrote: post #47
handsclean wrote: post #13

I wonder if it used to be that people largely weren’t on the same page, and didn’t know it. It’s not like people consult dictionaries to learn what slang means, or even usually ask somebody, and the definitions are related enough that responses usually don’t distinguish them. I’ve noticed it’s not uncommon online that a post’s likes are split between opposing interpretations, like agreeing with its politics vs seeing…

The article specifically addresses this with the fascinating quote from Dave Berry where he reports that the definition of the word unknowingly changed in his head over the last few decades: > “I always thought jerk meant asshole. At least I thought I always thought that, although the quotes you cite seem to suggest otherwise. So to answer your question: I have no idea. You may be right!”

I think the two concepts just aren’t that far apart in American English, and words can drift back and forth. Think about insulting the driver in the next car — it’s not always clear if you’re talking about their intelligence or lack of empathy and someone listening might get the opposite impression.

Clown can mean jerk in either sense. “Who’s this idiot?” means something closer to asshole. In old movies you’ll hear someone called “a selfish fool” or “inconsiderate fool,” where fool means something closer to asshole than fool as we usually use it.

Maybe the underlying issue is that it’s hard to tell someone acting obnoxiously because they don’t know better from someone deliberately indifferent or malicious, and the consequences are often the same.

Re: The forgotten meaning of "jerk"

#64

Post by shawn_w »

variaga wrote: post #48
mixmastamyk wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? I haven't seen it since the 70s, although that should be warning enough. I do remember "a rags-to riches-to rags story" tagline however.

>> It could never be made today. > Why not? M. Emmett Walsh, Carl Reiner, Maurice Evans and Jackie Mason are all dead, for one reason.

Not that big an issue in this age of AI generated deepfake videos.

Re: The forgotten meaning of "jerk"

#65

Post by Brian_K_White »

permo-w wrote: post #36
handsclean wrote: post #13

I wonder if it used to be that people largely weren’t on the same page, and didn’t know it. It’s not like people consult dictionaries to learn what slang means, or even usually ask somebody, and the definitions are related enough that responses usually don’t distinguish them. I’ve noticed it’s not uncommon online that a post’s likes are split between opposing interpretations, like agreeing with its politics vs seeing…

the British slang version of the word "cheers" is a very good example of this. I can tell you for absolute certain that the most people use the word "cheers" to mean "thanks", but if you go online and look up the definition, you will be told it also means goodbye, which it really doesn't, but I think this arises from the fact that it's a bit more relaxed form of thanks, so people frequently say it as thank you at the…

I would have thought it means "I wish you well" which applies in both of those though more in the "goodbye" case.

Re: The forgotten meaning of "jerk"

#66

Post by scyzoryk_xyz »

Stratoscope wrote: post #57
andy99 wrote: post #4

I always thought it was the third derivative of position

I like to use the example of being a passenger in a car. • Position is where you are at any moment. If you're not moving, your position doesn't change. • Velocity is how quickly your position changes. If you are doing 30 MPH on a perfectly straight road with no stops and starts, you may not even notice you're moving until you look out the window. • Acceleration is how quickly your velocity changes. It's the force tha…

Both of these took some time to get there for me but maybe that's because I'm a jerk

Re: The forgotten meaning of "jerk"

#68

Post by dkarl »

I remember being confused by this word when I was a kid! I was a kid in the eighties and remember reading/hearing things like "what a jerk" and thinking people were way too harsh with it. Maybe I landed too late to learn the old meaning but early enough to hear it sometimes? Or maybe I did learn it early on and then forgot with everybody else.

Re: The forgotten meaning of "jerk"

#69

Post by pryce »

sdrothrock wrote: post #20

The evolution of "jerk" makes me also think of "nimrod" and how it referred to the biblical hunter and meant someone with great skills in hunting, until it was used to refer to Elmer Fudd, at which point the meaning changed to mean a complete idiot. https://thehabit.co/nimrod-hectoring-maudlin-eponymns-and-pe...

It's fascinating that this pattern happened the reverse direction, with a different biblical term: the word 'fool' as used in the KJV Bible translates a Jewish concept that doesn't really mean what we think of today "a person without intellectual wisdom", but at the time of writing meant more closely "a person without moral wisdom" - or perhaps without both but apparently primarily referring to the moral flaw.

I have also seen the argument that our contemporary distinction between moral and intellectual wisdom itself is something we as readers unconsciously impose on the text, with the distinction not prominently drawn in the ancient Jewish view(s).*

This means that "Fool" moved from a meaning close to "an objectionable or obnoxious person" toward "a person without intellectual wisdom" over centuries, while "jerk" apparently has gone the opposite direction within just a few recent decades.

* I'm far from an expert at this.

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