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What services or apps did you see abroad and wonder: why don't we have them?

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Re: What services or apps did you see abroad and wonder: why don't we have them?

#61

Post by rkomorn »

Nextgrid wrote: post #58
rkomorn wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It helps that, to be able to use an IBAN for withdrawals, you basically have to "sign" a recurring transfer agreement. Otherwise it's pretty much always a "push" transaction from buyer to seller. Better than being able to commit ACH fraud merely by virtue of having the bank's routing and account number. Side note: shout out to both MB Way and Multibanco payments in Portugal that have made it so I haven't have to give…

But there is no cryptography or any kind of identity verification involved in "signing" such an agreement. If I know your IBAN I can subscribe to such an agreement on your behalf. I'm not sure about Europe, but at least in the UK, what makes such a system secure is that the account holder can reverse any "pull" transaction for over a month, with the merchant being on the hook. So it reduces the incentive to exploit i…

I don't have any experience with making fraudulent transactions, but I at least had to prove who I was when signing up for recurring transactions (so the fraud would've been effectively in my name), and I also see all my authorizations in my bank app (and I can remove them at any time).

In the US, I'd be more worried about a one-time fraudulent ACH withdrawal than a recurring payment situation.

I don't see a similar risk here. It seems like there are more hoops to go through to make a pull transaction?

Re: What services or apps did you see abroad and wonder: why don't we have them?

#62

Post by tpm »

Nextgrid wrote: post #59
rkomorn wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is shocking because ACH fraud in the US is shockingly easy to commit if you have the equivalent to someone's IBAN (ie routing + account number).

Can ACH not be reversed? My understanding is that the European systems are just as vulnerable, but what makes them "secure" is that they can be reversed no-questions-asked, making such an attack pointless unless you know the account holder isn't going to notice it for months.

No, European systems are not vulnerable like this. You can't do anything given my IBAN etc., you would need access to my banking app or website plus whatever 2fa I have set up there to send money from my account. And SEPA transfers can't be reversed easily AFAIK.

Re: What services or apps did you see abroad and wonder: why don't we have them?

#63

Post by rkomorn »

Nextgrid wrote: post #59
rkomorn wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is shocking because ACH fraud in the US is shockingly easy to commit if you have the equivalent to someone's IBAN (ie routing + account number).

Can ACH not be reversed? My understanding is that the European systems are just as vulnerable, but what makes them "secure" is that they can be reversed no-questions-asked, making such an attack pointless unless you know the account holder isn't going to notice it for months.

Not sure what you mean by "reversed". You have 60 days to tell your bank the transaction wasn't authorized, iirc, and you should get reimbursed. It might just be a hassle and it likely wouldn't be quick.

I've only had to deal with credit card fraud in the US and it was easy enough.

I did have a restaurant accidentally charge me $983 instead of $98.30 on a debit card for a meal during a holiday and, even though they immediately voided it, that still ended up basically blocking almost $1000 for several days. I can't imagine reversing an ACH transaction would be faster.

Overall I have no huge complaints about banking in the US. I just find it better in Europe so far, particularly sending money with IBANs.

Re: What services or apps did you see abroad and wonder: why don't we have them?

#64

Post by dotcoma »

gogusrl wrote: post #51
interactivecode wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In The Netherlands you just tap your card when you get in and when you get out. the fare is computed based on how many stops you went. No app needed. Supports all the virtual cards too like apple pay etc...

dumb question but what happens if you forget to tap out ?

You likely get charged from where you got on to the end of the route.

Re: What services or apps did you see abroad and wonder: why don't we have them?

#66

Post by Nextgrid »

rkomorn wrote: post #61
Nextgrid wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But there is no cryptography or any kind of identity verification involved in "signing" such an agreement. If I know your IBAN I can subscribe to such an agreement on your behalf. I'm not sure about Europe, but at least in the UK, what makes such a system secure is that the account holder can reverse any "pull" transaction for over a month, with the merchant being on the hook. So it reduces the incentive to exploit i…

I don't have any experience with making fraudulent transactions, but I at least had to prove who I was when signing up for recurring transactions (so the fraud would've been effectively in my name), and I also see all my authorizations in my bank app (and I can remove them at any time). In the US, I'd be more worried about a one-time fraudulent ACH withdrawal than a recurring payment situation. I don't see a similar…

I pay for several services via SEPA direct debit and the only things I had to provide to sign up was an IBAN and a pinky-promise I was the account holder. As far as I know they have to way to correlate the identity information on the provider account to the bank account holder’s, so it should work in case of fraud too. This lines up with how UK direct debits work as well, where a “sort code” (bank identifier) and account number are enough.

I presume the only security there is arises from the fact that those transactions can be reversed by the account holder within a generous grace period, and that this method of payment is only ever used to pay for long-standing services where there’s a strong paper trail to the beneficiary of said service (so not much point in doing the fraud to begin with).

Re: What services or apps did you see abroad and wonder: why don't we have them?

#67

Post by csomar »

qwertfisch wrote: post #35

I was in Paris some years ago, and it surprised me that a jug of water for drinking was free on every table. Of course if you wanted any other beverage you’d pay for it, but just quenching your thirst was free. In Germany water is not free, but instead another income for restaurants. Also it needs a law (only since 2001) that the cheapest beverage must be non-alcoholic. (Yet water could be more expensive than beer, a…

I thought the author from the US where water is usually served for free, pretty much in all restaurants?

Re: What services or apps did you see abroad and wonder: why don't we have them?

#70

Post by mjrbrennan »

bravesoul2 wrote: post #17
ano-ther wrote: post #11

London and Stockholm: swipe your credit card for public transport. Great for visitors (I guess for residents a subscription will be cheaper)

Sydney too, for quite a while (I am sure at least 5 yrs maybe 10)

Brisbane now as well since the past ~1 year or so, much better than the old Go Card system. The only downside in most places with these systems though is that there is no easy way to pay for e.g. children, would be perfect if you could say 3x tickets on this card when you tap in + out.
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