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"Remove mentions of XSLT from the html spec"

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Re: "Remove mentions of XSLT from the html spec"

#91
Actually, I think removing XSLT is bad because it means we are more tied to javascript or other languages for XML transformation instead of a language designed for this specific purpose, a DSL.

Which means more unreadable code.

But if they decide to remove XSLT from spec, I would be more than happy if they remove JS too. The same logic applies.

Re: "Remove mentions of XSLT from the html spec"

#92
A few things to note:

- This isn't Chrome doing this unilaterally. https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/11523 shows that representatives from every browser are supportive and there have been discussions about this in standards meetings: https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/11146#issuecomment-275...

- You can see from the WHATNOT meeting agenda that it was a Mozilla engineer who brought it up last time.

- Opening a PR doesn't necessarily mean that it'll be merged. Notice the unchecked tasks - there's a lot to still do on this one. Even so, give the cross-vendor support for this is seems likely to proceed at some point.

Re: "Remove mentions of XSLT from the html spec"

#93
post #75

This is actually not a bad idea. Why should the browser contain a specific template engine, like XSLT, and not Jinja for example? Also it can be reimplemented using JS or WASM. The browsers today are too bloated and it is difficult to create a new browser engine. I wish there were simpler standards for "minimal browser", for example, supporting only basic HTML tags, basic layout rules, WASM and Java bytecode. Many th…

So instead of a complete browser engine we get a basic engine and we need to write the complete on top of it?

Sounds like Wayland

Re: "Remove mentions of XSLT from the html spec"

#95
Oh hey, that thing happened that one could easily see was going to happen [0]. The writing was on the wall for XSL as soon as the browsers tore out FTP support: their desire to minimize attack surface trumps any tendency to leave well enough alone.

I wonder what the next step of removing less-popular features will be. Probably the SMIL attributes in favor of CSS for SVG animations, they've been grumbling about those for a while. Or maybe they'll ultimately decide that they don't like native MathML support after all. Really, any functionality that doesn't fit in the mold of "a CSS attribute" or "a JS method" is at risk, including most things XML-related.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43880391

Re: "Remove mentions of XSLT from the html spec"

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The web has been prospering?

What is Google? Or Amazon? I’m sure you can come up with more examples of extremely high value business which would not have happened without the web.

I don't think we all necessarily agree that "high value businesses" is the same as "prospering". If you mean "prospering" as in "making some people rich", sure, but if you mean "being beneficial to society at large", it's certainly debatable.

Re: "Remove mentions of XSLT from the html spec"

#97
post #76
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

XSLT was the blockchain, nft, metaverse of the mid?-2000s. Was totally going to solve all of our problems.

But XSLT is at least actually useful

So is metaverse, at least depending on the definition. Second Life is mentioned as an example of one on Wikipedia and that died pretty quickly because it was more of a mechanism instead of a destination in itself. The general concept of hanging out online with an avatar and friends is not gone at all

5G was another hype word. Can't say that's not useful! I don't really notice a difference with 4G (and barely with 3G) but apparently on the carrier side things got more efficient and it is very widely adopted

I guess there's a reason the Gartner hype cycle ends with widespread adoption and not with "dead and forgotten": most things are widely picked up for a reason. (Having said that, if someone can tell me what the unique selling point of an NFT was, I've not yet understood that one xD)

Re: "Remove mentions of XSLT from the html spec"

#98
post #8

I love how one company can do whatever they want. This is perfect.

Like how every other browser vendor is supportive and the issue was actually raised by Mozilla?

See the agenda here: https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/11131#issuecomment-274...

Re: "Remove mentions of XSLT from the html spec"

#99
post #26

I have no opinion on this, just sharing my one-and-only XSLT story. My first job in software was as a software test development intern at a ~500 employee non-profit, in about 2008 when I was about 19 or 20 years old. Writing software to test software. One of my tasks during the 2 years I worked there was to write documentation for their XML test data format. The test data was written in XML documents, then run throug…

After the XML madness whenever I see some tech being hyped and used all over the place I remember the days of XML and ignore it.

Re: "Remove mentions of XSLT from the html spec"

#100
post #51
post #40

Do we know Webkit, KHTML and Gecko's stand on this? I know this is for security reason but why not update the XSLT implementation instead. And if feature that aren't used get dropped, they might as well do it all in one good. I am sure lots of HTML spec aren't even used.

If it was just for security reasons, they could sponsor FOSS development on the implementation. I am of the opinion that it is to remove one of the last ways to build web applications that don't have advertising and tracking injected into them.

I get the impression they are ripping it out because they don't want to sponsor the FOSS volunteer working on it or deal w/ maintaining it themselves. The tracking/advertising take doesn't hold much water for me as adding those things to the page is something developers and companies choose to do. You could just as easily inject a tracking script tag or pixel or whatever via XSLT during transformation if you wanted.
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