Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Shamelessness as a strategy (2019)

nadia.xyz

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 173 posts

Re: Shamelessness as a strategy (2019)

#31

Post by jgon »

bc569a80a344f9c wrote: post #22
eszed wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give me an example or two?

Not a movie, but according to the wiki article linked a little further up the book “A Visit From The Goon Squad” by Jennifer Egan has metamodern qualities, and I heartily recommend reading it. It’s fantastic. The section in the format of a PowerPoint presentation about her brother that one of the main character’s daughter gives at her school is incredibly beautiful. One of my top five experiences reading.

I’ve added the book to my queue, and if you’re so inclined I’d appreciate hearing what your other four are.

Re: Shamelessness as a strategy (2019)

#32

Post by ctchocula »

JSR_FDED wrote: post #3

Weird contradiction in the article - it warns us not to complacently write off those who appear shameless… but also: > any major politician sticking to a pre-2016 playbook today is almost certainly not going to win.

My read of "pre-2016 playbook" was referring to someone using a traditional campaign like Hillary (rather than Trump using his pre-2016 strategy), and that they were saying Trump changed the entire game in 2016 so that shameless strategies would be the winning strategy going forward. So I don't see a contradiction.

Re: Shamelessness as a strategy (2019)

#33

Post by lovich »

aanet wrote: post #30

This is perhaps the best articulation on the rise of certain cantankerous people... in social media / politics / The metaphor of the game is a good one for general understanding (though the Signaling / Counters-signaling paper is a TIL for me) I was hoping that there would be a "solution" of sorts to tackle / handle this issue of when EVERYBODY seems to use this strategy, but perhaps there isn't one...? (My own way o…

> I was hoping that there would be a "solution" of sorts to tackle / handle this issue of when EVERYBODY seems to use this strategy, but perhaps there isn't one...?

It’s called government regulation. There’s whole fields of research on how to solve an arbitrarily complicated Prisoner’s Dilemma. A lot of people are allergic to the idea because they don’t want to have limits on their behavior, only on others or on no one at all.

So we get everyone picking the bad square in the Dilemma

Re: Shamelessness as a strategy (2019)

#34

Post by johnnyanmac »

>much like any cult or counterculture, that person’s goal was to attract a following, regardless of who the members are. The disgust of one’s peers doesn’t matter anymore, because that disgust forms the basis for an entirely new community.

Well that's an unfortunately dangerous effect. But thinking about it, it really only takes a few dozen active members to kindle a community, and then they use that to grab in any vulnerable people who they pitch their scam to.

>The concept of a “genius mastermind” is itself outdated, because it assumes that someone needs to be in control. The shameless person is simply a host for a set of ideas, which, like any virus, will continue to propagate as long as there are willing hosts to receive it.

Yeah, fair enough. People just see a catalyst and it will attract a whole swarm of people who will use it to fit their agenda. I suppose it explains a lot of the clshing reports within the US administration this year. Lots of sabetours all trying to do their thing, but they are wrangling a mascot around who they need to keep pleased.

----

As usual, I don't even know how to start to address this. This article was in 2019, and for my country it definitely torpedoed down this decade. It just feels like the few powers left to check it are ransacking the country, and some part of the country is cheering on the destruction of everything. You can't really fight that kind of nihilism.

Re: Shamelessness as a strategy (2019)

#35

Post by borroka »

Spooky23 wrote: post #26
borroka wrote: post #11

The article is way off base. Dorsey's playbook, if it even exists, isn't something to be ashamed of, especially in the context of Silicon Valley culture. Has the author never heard of Burning Man (obviously, she has and might have been more than once)? Zuck and Dorsey are two of the most common archetypes among tech company founders: the super nerd who only thinks about technology, and then money, and power, and the…

This stuff is an art. Andrew Cuomo was this weird sex symbol for awhile. Eventually people got sick of him, and the media people just pile on.

It's all about the situation and depends a lot on personality, the real one, not the facade, on intangibles (“aura”) and on never showing any weakness or offering apologies.

Trump's strategy works because it/he has all the elements to do so. Has he ever offered apologies? Never. He always moves forward: the past is the past. From an appearance standpoint, he offers an easy target for his rivals. But why hasn't anyone hit him, or when they have, why have they missed the mark? Because it's not in their nature, it is not them, they would not be consistent, it would be a one-off, not a strategy, but just an expedient tactic.

Re: Shamelessness as a strategy (2019)

#36

Post by johnnyanmac »

lovich wrote: post #33
aanet wrote: post #30

This is perhaps the best articulation on the rise of certain cantankerous people... in social media / politics / The metaphor of the game is a good one for general understanding (though the Signaling / Counters-signaling paper is a TIL for me) I was hoping that there would be a "solution" of sorts to tackle / handle this issue of when EVERYBODY seems to use this strategy, but perhaps there isn't one...? (My own way o…

> I was hoping that there would be a "solution" of sorts to tackle / handle this issue of when EVERYBODY seems to use this strategy, but perhaps there isn't one...? It’s called government regulation. There’s whole fields of research on how to solve an arbitrarily complicated Prisoner’s Dilemma. A lot of people are allergic to the idea because they don’t want to have limits on their behavior, only on others or on no o…

>A lot of people are allergic to the idea because they don’t want to have limits on their behavior, only on others or on no one at all.

So are we doomed? if we don't vote in people who can properly regulate this, it seems the dilemma continues. But how does one convince an entire society to stop being so selfish and myopic?

Re: Shamelessness as a strategy (2019)

#37

Post by johnnyanmac »

thr0w wrote: post #29

Unaccounted for: the failure scenario. You had integrity, put in the work, and failed. Life is brutal - anyone can respect your effort. You tried to be the next Paris, and failed. You look like a fucking clown.

There's some survivor bias. But like a virus, the next strain will be stronger and more potent from those survivors.

Very few people in 2004 could pull off the Paris. It's a lot easier in 2024.

Re: Shamelessness as a strategy (2019)

#38

Post by nextworddev »

thr0w wrote: post #29

Unaccounted for: the failure scenario. You had integrity, put in the work, and failed. Life is brutal - anyone can respect your effort. You tried to be the next Paris, and failed. You look like a fucking clown.

Well who cares about looking like a clown, considering there’s millions of them on LinkedIn and TikTok. Shame is diluted every day and no one cares

Re: Shamelessness as a strategy (2019)

#39

Post by b_e_n_t_o_n »

It's not shamelessness, it's authenticity. In today's curated, hyperreal society people desperately crave imperfections, cracks in the armour, they want something real, something human. They desire vulnerability, in part because it gives them courage to also be vulnerable, to not be afraid of judgement and rejection, and the freedom to be themselves.

And I think it's actionable advice for all of us. Be genuine, be vulnerable, and don't be afraid to be your true self. People like that.

Post reply on HN