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How Dangerous Is Your Couch?

nytimes.com

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Re: How Dangerous Is Your Couch?

#31

Post by nostromo »

Looking at mattresses without flame-retardent led me to this provider: http://www.whitelotus.net/green-cotton-rx/

Turns out you'll need a doctor's prescription to even order a plain cotton mattress. Yet another perfectly reasonable regulation from our friends in the California Legislature! :)

My least-favorite CA regulation has to do with eye-glasses. I lost my only pair and went in to get a replacement on a Saturday, but I couldn't because my (perfectly fine) prescription had expired. I had to make an appointment to get an exam in order to get new glasses, but they were closed for the weekend and booked for a few days.

So I spent about a week with headaches because some CA legislator decided it was in my best interest to pay some practitioner to get the same prescription for glasses every year.

Re: How Dangerous Is Your Couch?

#32

Post by tocomment »

nostromo wrote: post #31

Looking at mattresses without flame-retardent led me to this provider: http://www.whitelotus.net/green-cotton-rx/ Turns out you'll need a doctor's prescription to even order a plain cotton mattress. Yet another perfectly reasonable regulation from our friends in the California Legislature! :) My least-favorite CA regulation has to do with eye-glasses. I lost my only pair and went in to get a replacement on a Saturday…

You should have ordered online.

Re: How Dangerous Is Your Couch?

#33

Post by Alex3917 »

droithomme wrote: post #29
greenyoda wrote: post #18

The irony of the whole thing is that the flame retardants don't even make furniture any less flammable: "The problem, [the fire expert] argues, is that the standard is based on applying a small flame to a bare piece of foam - a situation unlikely to happen in real life. ... In real life, before the flame gets to the foam, it has to ignite the fabric. Once the fabric catches fire, it becomes a sheet of flame that can…

Thanks for digging that up, I was wondering about that. The article cites a retardant advocate as saying "Deaths caused by furniture fires dropped from 1,400 in 1980 to 600 in 2004; a 57 percent reduction." We know that almost all of these couch fires are caused by people falling asleep while smoking cigarettes. According to the CDC, in the same period, cigarette consumption in the US adult population has fallen from…

"According to the CDC, in the same period, cigarette consumption in the US adult population has fallen from 33.2% in 1980 to 20.9% in 2004."

Those who smoke cigarettes also smoke a lot less than they used to, so total cigarette consumption is maybe only half as much or less compared to what it once was.

Re: How Dangerous Is Your Couch?

#34

Post by SoftwareMaven »

anonymouz wrote: post #26
Tichy wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does a couch catch fire, though? I suspect falling asleep on a couch with a cigarette is the main cause. Smokers want to die anyway, so I'd give priority to safety of children.

But what about the people living next door to your hypothetical smoker? It's a good idea to have fire safety regulations, for the reason that a fire usually will not just burn the person who caused it in the first place. (Whether this fire retardent helps prevent fires or not is of course a more difficult question...)

The article specifically mentioned this case. The chemicals they put in the foam would have absolutely no benefit if your apartment was burning because the neighbor's started. Furthermore, there is little evidence that the chemicals will prevent your sleeping smoker from burning the place down. Droithomme's comment[1] very much applies.

1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4493813

Re: How Dangerous Is Your Couch?

#35

Post by guelo »

nostromo wrote: post #31

Looking at mattresses without flame-retardent led me to this provider: http://www.whitelotus.net/green-cotton-rx/ Turns out you'll need a doctor's prescription to even order a plain cotton mattress. Yet another perfectly reasonable regulation from our friends in the California Legislature! :) My least-favorite CA regulation has to do with eye-glasses. I lost my only pair and went in to get a replacement on a Saturday…

"So I spent about a week with headaches because some ophthalmology trade group lobbied (bribed) the legislature to get profit-enhancing regulations in place."

FTFY

Re: How Dangerous Is Your Couch?

#36

Post by SoftwareMaven »

zafirk wrote: post #3

between this and the article about brain parasites in california, HN is scaring the crap out of me

This is a fundamental problem with our always-on, 24 hour news, headline-based world. Unfortunately, it tends to breed fear, hopelessness and apathy as people feel overwhelmed about too many problems they can't control.

Not sure what to do about it, though. Get outside and disconnected more, I suppose. :)

Re: How Dangerous Is Your Couch?

#37

Post by noonespecial »

greenyoda wrote: post #18

The irony of the whole thing is that the flame retardants don't even make furniture any less flammable: "The problem, [the fire expert] argues, is that the standard is based on applying a small flame to a bare piece of foam - a situation unlikely to happen in real life. ... In real life, before the flame gets to the foam, it has to ignite the fabric. Once the fabric catches fire, it becomes a sheet of flame that can…

A perfect example of, in the absence of data, just doing what we wish would work in order to be doing something.

Re: How Dangerous Is Your Couch?

#38

Post by greenyoda »

droithomme wrote: post #29
greenyoda wrote: post #18

The irony of the whole thing is that the flame retardants don't even make furniture any less flammable: "The problem, [the fire expert] argues, is that the standard is based on applying a small flame to a bare piece of foam - a situation unlikely to happen in real life. ... In real life, before the flame gets to the foam, it has to ignite the fabric. Once the fabric catches fire, it becomes a sheet of flame that can…

Thanks for digging that up, I was wondering about that. The article cites a retardant advocate as saying "Deaths caused by furniture fires dropped from 1,400 in 1980 to 600 in 2004; a 57 percent reduction." We know that almost all of these couch fires are caused by people falling asleep while smoking cigarettes. According to the CDC, in the same period, cigarette consumption in the US adult population has fallen from…

The decline in deaths could also have been caused by laws that require the installation of smoke detectors.

Re: How Dangerous Is Your Couch?

#39

Post by seiji »

greenyoda wrote: post #18

The irony of the whole thing is that the flame retardants don't even make furniture any less flammable: "The problem, [the fire expert] argues, is that the standard is based on applying a small flame to a bare piece of foam - a situation unlikely to happen in real life. ... In real life, before the flame gets to the foam, it has to ignite the fabric. Once the fabric catches fire, it becomes a sheet of flame that can…

an arbitrary standard that was not based in reality.

Also see the horrific "food pyramid" (or, if we named it properly, the "morbid obesity and recipe for metabolic syndrome pyramid").

Re: How Dangerous Is Your Couch?

#40

Post by Tichy »

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #34
anonymouz wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what about the people living next door to your hypothetical smoker? It's a good idea to have fire safety regulations, for the reason that a fire usually will not just burn the person who caused it in the first place. (Whether this fire retardent helps prevent fires or not is of course a more difficult question...)

The article specifically mentioned this case. The chemicals they put in the foam would have absolutely no benefit if your apartment was burning because the neighbor's started. Furthermore, there is little evidence that the chemicals will prevent your sleeping smoker from burning the place down. Droithomme's comment[1] very much applies. 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4493813

I think the argument is that if your neighbor's couch catches fire, there is a risk of the fire spreading to your apartment.
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