How Dangerous Is Your Couch? • Hacker News Board

Re: How Dangerous Is Your Couch?

#11

Post by 001sky » Sat, Sep 08, 2012, 6:53 PM UTC

simonsarris wrote: post #10

pmorici wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Protecting the interests of the chemical manufacturing industry?

I think this kind of cynicism without citation is a very unhealthy thing for any (online) community. large edit: I should have said "cynicism without citation and qualification. " Even if there's a citation I don't like how people reject people/places/institutions out of hand because they might do bad things or have bad qualities because it's often represented as a dichotomy. For instance here, even if we grant that…

There is a citation of the data. The question is a fair one. I don't think we should self-censor people for answering, per se.[1]

[1] Also see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture#Environmenta...

Re: How Dangerous Is Your Couch?

#12

Post by hastur » Sat, Sep 08, 2012, 7:01 PM UTC

Vote for Mitt Romney, he'll scale back the EPA and you'll be able to wallow in carcinogenic substances all day long.

Re: How Dangerous Is Your Couch?

#13

Post by hinathan » Sat, Sep 08, 2012, 7:05 PM UTC

Arlene Blum is kind of amazing. I met her maybe 20 years ago in the context of mountain climbing. Can't imagine climbing with a baby strapped to myself.

Re: How Dangerous Is Your Couch?

#14

Post by lignuist » Sat, Sep 08, 2012, 7:06 PM UTC

afterburner wrote: post #7

Memory-foam mattresses have the same problem apparently. I have one, and am looking into a dust mite bed casing (~$100) to prevent the chemicals from getting into the air... http://lesstoxicstuff.com/2011/09/how-to-reduce-your-familys...

We spend a lot of time in our beds (at least we should), so we should take everything about it very serious!

We recently switched to a bed that strictly consists of natural materials like wood, latex, cotton and natural rubber. Absolutely no metal and no toxic additives. Costs as much as our car, but is worth every cent. Sleeping feels like holiday now. I also can smell the difference.

Re: How Dangerous Is Your Couch?

#15

Post by Tichy » Sat, Sep 08, 2012, 7:12 PM UTC

hinathan wrote: post #13

Arlene Blum is kind of amazing. I met her maybe 20 years ago in the context of mountain climbing. Can't imagine climbing with a baby strapped to myself.

So basically she is completely crazy? However I hope she wins the fight against toxic chemicals...

Re: How Dangerous Is Your Couch?

#16

Post by NoPiece » Sat, Sep 08, 2012, 7:13 PM UTC

I feel like the article is missing a basic analysis of whether there would be more deaths by an increased number of fires caused by removing the fire retardant, or by cancer cancer caused by fire retardant. Just give me some numbers, and let me decide what kind of furniture I want.

Re: How Dangerous Is Your Couch?

#17

Post by huhtenberg » Sat, Sep 08, 2012, 7:17 PM UTC

Reminds me of the situation around one of theories that tries to explain SIDS - Sudden Infant Death Syndrome. If you had a kid, you know what it is - a newborn dying in his sleep for no apparent reason. You put a healthy baby to sleep in his bed only to find him dead in the morning. Fun stuff.

There are no exact explanation for the syndrome, but there are preventive measures (such as always let newborn fall asleep on his back) that statistically lessen the risk of it occurring.

One of the theories was that a typical crib mattress creates a fertile ground for some fungal growth. Coupled with chemicals found in the mattress, this creates weak poisonous gas emission, which ultimately kills the child. It's an older theory that was verified and formally considered invalid. However in one country, New Zealand, there's a doctor who has been a vigorously arguing in favor of this theory and now has a statistic to show that proper mattress wrapping nullifies the risk of SIDS. From what I've read, he had very hard time getting the authorities to even listen to his findings, leave alone to act on them.

I wish this lady the best of luck, she's got NYT on her side, I hope she takes a full advantage of this exposure.

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_infant_death_syndrome

Re: How Dangerous Is Your Couch?

#18

Post by greenyoda » Sat, Sep 08, 2012, 7:22 PM UTC

The irony of the whole thing is that the flame retardants don't even make furniture any less flammable:

"The problem, [the fire expert] argues, is that the standard is based on applying a small flame to a bare piece of foam - a situation unlikely to happen in real life. ... In real life, before the flame gets to the foam, it has to ignite the fabric. Once the fabric catches fire, it becomes a sheet of flame that can easily overwhelm the fire-suppression properties of treated foam. In tests, TB 117 compliant chairs catch fire just as easily as ones that aren't compliant - and they burn just as hot."

So the entire country is now exposed to the dangers of these chemicals because in 1975 some bureaucrats at an obscure government agency in California came up with an arbitrary standard that was not based in reality.

Re: How Dangerous Is Your Couch?

#19

Post by Tichy » Sat, Sep 08, 2012, 7:23 PM UTC

NoPiece wrote: post #16

I feel like the article is missing a basic analysis of whether there would be more deaths by an increased number of fires caused by removing the fire retardant, or by cancer cancer caused by fire retardant. Just give me some numbers, and let me decide what kind of furniture I want.

How does a couch catch fire, though? I suspect falling asleep on a couch with a cigarette is the main cause. Smokers want to die anyway, so I'd give priority to safety of children.

Re: How Dangerous Is Your Couch?

#20

Post by natedub » Sat, Sep 08, 2012, 7:25 PM UTC

NoPiece wrote: post #16

I feel like the article is missing a basic analysis of whether there would be more deaths by an increased number of fires caused by removing the fire retardant, or by cancer cancer caused by fire retardant. Just give me some numbers, and let me decide what kind of furniture I want.

The article quotes a fire-safety scientist named Vytenis Babrauskas, whose study has been used in support TB 117:

"The problem, he argues, is that the standard is based on applying a small flame to a bare piece of foam — a situation unlikely to happen in real life. ... In real life, before the flame gets to the foam, it has to ignite the fabric. Once the fabric catches fire, it becomes a sheet of flame that can easily overwhelm the fire-suppression properties of treated foam. In tests, TB 117 compliant chairs catch fire just as easily as ones that aren’t compliant — and they burn just as hot. “This is not speculation,” he says. “There were two series of tests that prove what I’m saying is correct.”