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When the CIA got away with building a heart attack gun

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Re: When the CIA got away with building a heart attack gun

#81

It really makes you wonder what other weapons they have that we don't know about.

There are weapons that can permanently paralyze an entire city. Not paralyze infrastructure or traffic... but permanent incurable paralysis of all the people in any area exposed to the weapon. That is still a 20th century technology.

Mind sharing some links? Curious what you are talking about.

Re: When the CIA got away with building a heart attack gun

#82
post #63
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost certainly, Havana Syndrome. Caused by a (microwave-, possibly) weapon that can lead to permanent neurological symptoms. And the US is not the only country that has it but is expanding a lot of energy into making the media talk about it less. CHUPPL did a great investigation on it if you're interested https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havana_syndrome https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqE0ltifQ2M

Your linked article admits it might not even be real. >A 2023 review article written by Bartholomew and Baloh concluded that Havana syndrome was erroneously classified as a novel entity due to a moral panic based on the fear of foreign entities such as the Russians or Cubans attacking the U.S, the over-interpretation of data, misconceptions about psychogenic illness, and coverage and leaks by the media. The authors s…

> Your linked article admits it might not even be real.

There's no evidence of anything "we don't know about". In the same way there's no pictures of things never photographed.

Re: When the CIA got away with building a heart attack gun

#83

> a weapon designed to deliver untraceable assassinations using shellfish toxin darts. How is that untraceable? Gee, we found an extremely sophisticated shellfish toxin dart in the victim, must be nothing! What a stupid article

> There, researchers under Dr. Nathan Gordon, a CIA chemist, mixed shellfish toxin with water and froze the mixture into a small pellet or dart. The finished projectile would be fired from a modified Colt M1911 pistol equipped with an electrical firing mechanism. It had an effective range of 100 meters and was virtually noiseless when fired. > When fired into a target, the frozen dart would immediately melt and relea…

>undetectable to those who didn’t know to look for it

So is polonium. It's nonetheless not exactly that difficult to pinpoint if someone just drops dead.

Re: When the CIA got away with building a heart attack gun

#86
post #7

This article is about the Church Committee, if you're interested in the heart attack gun see: https://allthatsinteresting.com/heart-attack-gun Also it's interesting to note how Russia doesn't use a gun like this, they spike drinks/food or spray it on surfaces like doorknobs.

There is no evidence the heart attack gun ever existed.

Every description of it is ludicrous.

>here, researchers under Dr. Nathan Gordon, a CIA chemist, mixed shellfish toxin with water and froze the mixture into a small pellet or dart. The finished projectile would be fired from a modified Colt M1911 pistol equipped with an electrical firing mechanism. It had an effective range of 100 meters and was virtually noiseless when fired.

The device held up by Senator Frank Church was not a modified Colt M1911. It was an air pistol with absurd rifle sight attached.

That device has no mechanism for cooling the pellets. The second a frozen pellet is inserted into that device it will begin melting.

Very few handguns, to the point that "none" is accurate ENOUGH, have an effective range of more than ~50 meters. There are some calibers, not nearly-silent ice pellets, that can travel further but their ballistics out of short barrels are so poor that demos at 100 yards and beyond are exercises in exhibition and bragging rights.

No known combinations of mechanisms needed to propel a projectile 100 meters are virtually noiseless. Even air rifles that can fling a metal pellet several hundred yards as their "maximum range" but operate in 50-60 yards as their "effective range" make a shit ton of noise.

Any small dart-like ice pellet would immediately disintegrate into dust at the forces needed to travel even a fraction of 100 meters with enough energy to pierce human skinned clothing.

Any large .45 caliber ice pellet would shatter and if it struck a target with enough force to penetrate skin it would leave way more than "a tiny red dot"'s worth of signature.

Saxitoxin is not, and has never been since its isolation, undetectable. It doesn't "disappear" from the body after death (indeed the mechanisms that would cause its distruction cease upon death) and can be detected with simple tests.

This doesn't make sense except as a distraction from things the CIA really didn't want investigators to see.

Re: When the CIA got away with building a heart attack gun

#87

It really makes you wonder what other weapons they have that we don't know about.

There are weapons that can permanently paralyze an entire city. Not paralyze infrastructure or traffic... but permanent incurable paralysis of all the people in any area exposed to the weapon. That is still a 20th century technology.

That's a hell of a claim, and unless you're talking about some kind of chemical spray or seeding some weaponized microbe across the city, you could at least post a link or name that explains what it is.

Re: When the CIA got away with building a heart attack gun

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds even more ridiculous, ice bullet handgun "effective" to 100m? Have you ever fired a handgun? That's quite far for even a conventional handgun I have no doubt they researched it but I highly doubt it was effective or used.

To be effective to 100m it would have to have near rifle muzzle velocities, and that would _not_ be "virtually noiseless" because that would be mach 2 or higher, and anything supersonic makes a loud crack. So if it was subsonic then the bullet drop at 100m would be at least a foot and a half. Wind would make its accuracy terrible enough, but then consider how you might stabilize a bullet made of ice... (I know it was…

It’s of course bogus. But why? What would be the point?

Re: When the CIA got away with building a heart attack gun

#89
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be effective to 100m it would have to have near rifle muzzle velocities, and that would _not_ be "virtually noiseless" because that would be mach 2 or higher, and anything supersonic makes a loud crack. So if it was subsonic then the bullet drop at 100m would be at least a foot and a half. Wind would make its accuracy terrible enough, but then consider how you might stabilize a bullet made of ice... (I know it was…

It’s of course bogus. But why? What would be the point?

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