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When the CIA got away with building a heart attack gun

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Re: When the CIA got away with building a heart attack gun

#31
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was claims of a possible cancer "gun". See https://www.ibtimes.com/hugo-chavez-says-us-could-be-giving-...

That can’t even be that hard. Some sort of directed radiation beam will do that easily.

You should talk to a radiation oncologist. It is extremely hard to target a person with directed ionizing radiation at any distance in a way that would significantly increase the risk of cancer without causing very obvious surface effects.

Re: When the CIA got away with building a heart attack gun

#32

> a weapon designed to deliver untraceable assassinations using shellfish toxin darts. How is that untraceable? Gee, we found an extremely sophisticated shellfish toxin dart in the victim, must be nothing! What a stupid article

> There, researchers under Dr. Nathan Gordon, a CIA chemist, mixed shellfish toxin with water and froze the mixture into a small pellet or dart. The finished projectile would be fired from a modified Colt M1911 pistol equipped with an electrical firing mechanism. It had an effective range of 100 meters and was virtually noiseless when fired.

> When fired into a target, the frozen dart would immediately melt and release its poisonous payload into the victim’s bloodstream. Shellfish toxins, which are known to completely shut down the cardiovascular system in concentrated doses, would spread to the victim’s heart, mimicking a heart attack and causing death within minutes.

> All that would be left behind was a tiny red dot where the dart entered the body, undetectable to those who didn’t know to look for it. As the target lay dying, the assassin could escape without notice.

> https://allthatsinteresting.com/heart-attack-gun

Re: When the CIA got away with building a heart attack gun

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So I'm not sure what's meant by the "got away with" part. The agency still exists, in the exact same form, with no additional oversight. Did you think it just meant remaining obscured from the public? Shouldn't someone have gone to jail for this? > Recreating the Church commission today wouldn't be just difficult, it is completely impossible. The CIA has literally taken "ex-employees" and run them into the House an…

It's not hard to kill people or anything. Doesn't exactly take a lot of research to do either. If your agency is developing a bunch of new ways to kill people, it doesn't actually increase capabilities, doesn't it just mean they're bored?

> It's not hard to kill people or anything.

Unless you want to be completely clandestine about it. Then it is very hard. My understanding is this is why the CIA exists, to perform work, and remain unknown.

> Doesn't exactly take a lot of research to do either.

You're basing this off of years of experience within or with the agency? You've reviewed many CIA political assassinations over the years and came to a careful conclusion on this point?

> it doesn't actually increase capabilities

Yea. The world is static. So developing new techniques is just "for funsies." It's not like cameras, cell phones, and advanced sensors haven't made this more difficult or anything.

> doesn't it just mean they're bored?

Doesn't it just mean they no longer have a reason to exist?

Re: When the CIA got away with building a heart attack gun

#34
post #7

This article is about the Church Committee, if you're interested in the heart attack gun see: https://allthatsinteresting.com/heart-attack-gun Also it's interesting to note how Russia doesn't use a gun like this, they spike drinks/food or spray it on surfaces like doorknobs.

They also used ricin injected by an umbrella.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian_umbrella

Re: When the CIA got away with building a heart attack gun

#35
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That can’t even be that hard. Some sort of directed radiation beam will do that easily.

You should talk to a radiation oncologist. It is extremely hard to target a person with directed ionizing radiation at any distance in a way that would significantly increase the risk of cancer without causing very obvious surface effects.

Are there other ways to induce cancer?

It's a remarkable coincidence that Hugo Chavez and Kim Jong Il died very young within two years of each other (2011 and 2013). Yes, the level of medical care in Venezuela and North Korea is poor, but these were dictators who had access to the best doctors in their own countries as well as imported experts from China, Cuba, etc.

Re: When the CIA got away with building a heart attack gun

#36
post #35
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should talk to a radiation oncologist. It is extremely hard to target a person with directed ionizing radiation at any distance in a way that would significantly increase the risk of cancer without causing very obvious surface effects.

Are there other ways to induce cancer? It's a remarkable coincidence that Hugo Chavez and Kim Jong Il died very young within two years of each other (2011 and 2013). Yes, the level of medical care in Venezuela and North Korea is poor, but these were dictators who had access to the best doctors in their own countries as well as imported experts from China, Cuba, etc.

Paranoid people find all sorts of coincidences in random events.

Re: When the CIA got away with building a heart attack gun

#38

It really makes you wonder what other weapons they have that we don't know about.

In a purely technical ponderance, I wonder if it's possible to design a stun gun that would inflict death by either increasing the current and voltage, or if a specific signal could be sent to the heart that would induce an arrhythmia. Basically the opposite of a defibrillator. A biotech maintenance guy told me that if you receive a shock when your heart is in a critical phase of the complex, it can cause it to shut off. Maybe a heart attack stun gun could attempt to read the cardiac waves and deliver the shock at the worst possible point.

(I have to emphasize that no homicidal motive drew me towards wondering that. It's just the borderless free thought that causes random ideas to float through my mind. If I can think of it, certainly the people who design covert weapons also have)

Re: When the CIA got away with building a heart attack gun

#39
post #37
post #29

The CIA has done much worse than a heart attack gun. How about giving someone LSD everyday for 18 months for science.

I think tolerance builds up fast enough for that to be a rather boring experiment.

Yeah, it's exponential. You'd have to double the dose each day to achieve the same result as the day before. Otherwise they're just gonna have some mildly distorted thoughts and a nasty headache.

Re: When the CIA got away with building a heart attack gun

#40

It really makes you wonder what other weapons they have that we don't know about.

Almost certainly, Havana Syndrome. Caused by a (microwave-, possibly) weapon that can lead to permanent neurological symptoms. And the US is not the only country that has it but is expanding a lot of energy into making the media talk about it less. CHUPPL did a great investigation on it if you're interested

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havana_syndrome

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqE0ltifQ2M

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