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Occult books digitized and put online by Amsterdam’s Ritman Library

openculture.com

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Re: Occult books digitized and put online by Amsterdam’s Ritman Library

#51

Post by dr_dshiv »

Disposal8433 wrote: post #35
perfectbeeing wrote: post #15

Would this be reasonable material on which to fine tune the new Gemma 3 270M model?

Half of the occult books are talking about magic and irrelevant stuff. The other half is philosophy and spirituality hidden behind materialistic concepts (think Freemasons for example). All those books would most likely be useless or detrimental for LLMs I guess.

Most of the books are the outcomes of the Renaissance. The relationship between “science” and spirituality was much closer then than now.

Further, most books published in Europe between 1300-1700 were written in Neo-Latin. Most of these books, therefore, have not been digitized and translated.

Now, to me, it seems like a real shame if this humanist core of European thought is deemed too dangerous for consumption. But it wouldn’t be the first time. The library behind these works, the Biblioteca Philosophica Hermetica, specializes in books banned by various church authorities.

I personally believe that these materials should definitely be part of large model training. The renaissance, esoteric though it may be, deserves to be part of the diversity of thought used to train LLMs.

We can easily imagine an AI apocalypse - maybe these books might even help us imagine an AI renaissance…

Re: Occult books digitized and put online by Amsterdam’s Ritman Library

#52

Post by nashashmi »

Some people here are reacting like the occult is fake.

Magic is fake. It is an illusion and it is fun and games. And we have lots of stories about it, both fantasy and horror.

Occult is real. There is no such thing as white magic. There is only black magic. And such magic involves making trades with spirits and demons and establishing relationships with them. These demons do not have a code. They slowly guide you towards a state where you humiliate yourself and put yourself in a compromised state. Addicted. Disconnected. Repulsed.

Please be careful around these things. It’s fun until someone dies. As this professional witch will tell you. https://www.facebook.com/shadow.control.en/videos/zhanna-kus...

Re: Occult books digitized and put online by Amsterdam’s Ritman Library

#53

Post by GuinansEyebrows »

literalAardvark wrote: post #38
jrussino wrote: post #2

This sounds like the premise for a fun sci-fi/horror move. Uh-oh; we accidentally trained GPT6 on the Necronomicon!

You jest, but that's already a pretty decent Buffy the vampire slayer episode

one of my favorites!

Re: Occult books digitized and put online by Amsterdam’s Ritman Library

#55

Post by dr_dshiv »

A good place to start is Cornelis Agrippa’s “Three Books on Occult Philosophy.” Agrippa was a lawyer and esoteric feminist (eg, he wrote “on the nobility and preeminence of the female sex”) and defended women accused of witchcraft throughout Europe. His “three books” gave birth to the “occult” nomenclature.

Or my favorite, Marsilio Ficino. There is a statue to Ficino when you walk into the library. Ficino was hired by Cosimo Medici (the Florentine who invented banking and funded much of the Florentine renaissance) to translate Plato and other esoteric books coming from the fall of Constantinople. He published “De Mysteriis” in 1497, which paraphrases neoplatonic understanding of Gods, Demons, Heroes and Soul — arguing that gods and demons don’t feel — indeed, not even the soul (“the lowest of the divines”) has any part that feels.

(Aside: This idea was actually referenced in “K Pop Demon Hunters,” where they debate whether demons can feel — or are “all feelings”)

It is an old Pythagorean tradition that sensation or consciousness arises out of the interaction of the immaterial soul and the material body. That “three world” idea is echoed by Nobel Laureate Roger Penrose in his book “Road to Reality.” He talks about how the material world produces the world of consciousness which produces the world of ideas (including mathematics), which seems to produce the material world…

In any case, there are many old ideas and nuggets of wisdom that have yet to be mined and discovered— don’t think for a moment that scholars have read all these books! We might need AI for that…

Re: Occult books digitized and put online by Amsterdam’s Ritman Library

#56

Post by dismalaf »

narrator wrote: post #28
dismalaf wrote: post #6

This is super cool. There's also a popular YouTube channel called "ESOTERICA" in which an academic expert on the occult presents a lot of occult topics from a scholarly point of view (as opposed to the woo often associated with the topic).

IMHO, the occult is just pre-modern social psychology and propaganda. How to get people to join your religion and fight, do bad stuff, and die for you is really old technology. Before modern psychology "Spellcasting" was saying something to someone for the effect it would have on them to manipulate their psychology to get them to do the thing you wanted them to do. It was a sort of pre-modern NLP. Christians and peop…

"Occult" means hidden practices. So it covers both non-mainstream religious/mystical/magical practices, but it also covers "hidden" beliefs within religions.

Stuff like Kabbalah is considered occult, as it Christian mysticism, or folk mysticism that coexists with religion.

Also, one can study things without making judgements about them. The history of human beliefs is interesting.

Re: Occult books digitized and put online by Amsterdam’s Ritman Library

#57

Post by datadrivenangel »

rpastuszak wrote: post #39
krapp wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just a Charles Stross novel.

I just learned about The Laundry Files, thanks!

The Laundry files are very good. James Bond crossed with Lovecraft in the tone of Terry Pratchett.

Re: Occult books digitized and put online by Amsterdam’s Ritman Library

#58

Post by rokkamokka »

nashashmi wrote: post #52

Some people here are reacting like the occult is fake. Magic is fake. It is an illusion and it is fun and games. And we have lots of stories about it, both fantasy and horror. Occult is real. There is no such thing as white magic. There is only black magic. And such magic involves making trades with spirits and demons and establishing relationships with them. These demons do not have a code. They slowly guide you tow…

James Randi comes to mind

Re: Occult books digitized and put online by Amsterdam’s Ritman Library

#59

Post by just-working »

nashashmi wrote: post #52

Some people here are reacting like the occult is fake. Magic is fake. It is an illusion and it is fun and games. And we have lots of stories about it, both fantasy and horror. Occult is real. There is no such thing as white magic. There is only black magic. And such magic involves making trades with spirits and demons and establishing relationships with them. These demons do not have a code. They slowly guide you tow…

Exactly. We must turn the LORD and not these demons.

Re: Occult books digitized and put online by Amsterdam’s Ritman Library

#60

Post by zozbot234 »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #51
Disposal8433 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half of the occult books are talking about magic and irrelevant stuff. The other half is philosophy and spirituality hidden behind materialistic concepts (think Freemasons for example). All those books would most likely be useless or detrimental for LLMs I guess.

Most of the books are the outcomes of the Renaissance. The relationship between “science” and spirituality was much closer then than now. Further, most books published in Europe between 1300-1700 were written in Neo-Latin. Most of these books, therefore, have not been digitized and translated. Now, to me, it seems like a real shame if this humanist core of European thought is deemed too dangerous for consumption. But…

> I personally believe that these materials should definitely be part of large model training.

Already done: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37752272 It turns out that the real safety risk with AI is not Mecha-Hitler, it's just that it might end up reading the wrong sorts of books and accidentally conjure a horde of demons.

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