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Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

josefprusa.com

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Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#101

Post by bigthymer »

simpaticoder wrote: post #11

The real story here is that IP ownership is capital-intensive when it shouldn't be. Open-source and community-led IP contributions are grossly under-protected because of this, and those with capital become unopposed predators. This is a special-case of the more general observation that the justice system is capital-intensive when it shouldn't be. The answer is something you very rarely hear: the US (especially) needs…

One solution may be to move from an adversarial system to more of an inquisitorial one. This mostly removes the need for lawyers.

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#102

Post by sublimefire »

tiku wrote: post #29

As someone that had open-hardware printers, they suck. They were fun to play with but not really ready for every day use. So perhaps a bad thing for the hardware side, but as a consumer/user I want a smooth experience.

This is very much a bad faith argument without any specifics. I found Prusa to be good enough. Do you have any examples of open hardware printers that were evaluated that did not meet the bar?

Regardless the topic is about open hardware being squeezed using shady tactics. It means leas competition, less innovation. Rules to kick such players should be easy to enforce as opposed to required to pay quite a lot for such an action.

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#103

Post by dkdcio »

naasking wrote: post #82
Workaccount2 wrote: post #60

China, being a planned economy at heart, has a "VC" system that is essentially just the government deciding what needs to be developed, and then Chinese banks lending without any practical strings to those developers. Profit and loss, ROI, business plan, aren't really factored in. China wants to develop AI? You have some experience and want to start an AI business? Great! Here is a few million go make AI. This is the…

I don't see how that could be considered a planned economy, you're describing individuals creating startups of their own free choice and the government backing them with no strings. Individual choices are driving economic progress. A planned economy would be some government committee deciding what specific startups and how many of them should be started up in any give year, and no one else can create a startup.

"A planned economy would be some government committee deciding what specific startups and how many of them should be started up in any give year, and no one else can create a startup."

no it would not be...where is this definition from?

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#104

Post by AlexandrB »

simpaticoder wrote: post #11

The real story here is that IP ownership is capital-intensive when it shouldn't be. Open-source and community-led IP contributions are grossly under-protected because of this, and those with capital become unopposed predators. This is a special-case of the more general observation that the justice system is capital-intensive when it shouldn't be. The answer is something you very rarely hear: the US (especially) needs…

IP is just too strong. The terms are ridiculously long (especially for copyright), there are multiple workarounds for "fair use", such as DMCA, and patents on simple concepts like linked lists are not laughed out of the room.

All of this stuff needs to be weakened (and shortened). Part of the reason Chinese companies are able to iterate quickly on technology like 3d printers or drones is that it's possible to simply ignore this stifling IP regime until you actually need to start selling internationally.

It's telling that the article specifically calls out patents originating in China. It seems ridiculous to treat these as serious filings and not shredder fodder when the originating country happily allows their local industry to ignore western patents. The asymmetry here leads to obvious advantages for Chinese companies.

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#105

Post by sschueller »

transcriptase wrote: post #18

One must admire China’s pivot from 30 years of essentially ignoring IP and patent law to the detriment of Western companies, to now weaponizing IP and patent law against the rest of the world.

If you read into how/why Hollywood film industry was created, it isn't something new.

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#106

Post by bryanlarsen »

AlexandrB wrote: post #72
reactordev wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I don't entirely disagree with you. You have to understand why the courts exist at all. To govern working class citizens. Laws are written by the powerful and wealthy - always has been - to control the working class (everyone else). You're freedom is an illusion. A social contract agreed upon by you following certain rules. Those rules, written by the wealthy, don't apply to the wealthy. In a just society they…

> In a just society they would be, but we have ceased to be a just society for the last 50 years. When did we start being a just society would you say? WWI? The Civil Rights Act? Unless you really stretch things, saying that justice declined in the last 50 years - even if true - means that justice "peaked" for a short period of maybe a generation. I suspect if you actually lived in that era[1] you wouldn't think that…

> When did we start being a just society would you say?

I think most historians would agree that it started with the signing of the Magna Carta in 1215.

It was a very small start, it only protected nobles from the king, but it's generally considered to be the start.

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#107

Post by cluckindan »

BoredPositron wrote: post #80
cluckindan wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? It’s listed very first on this page: https://www.prusa3d.com/page/open-source-at-prusa-research_2...

Loads of printable parts on this one...

What is your point? They should open-source components not made by them?

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#108

Post by ninetyninenine »

clarionbell wrote: post #41
motorest wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People seems generally uninterested in fixing this too. What problem do you think needs fixing?

Dependence on foreign power with potentially misaligned goal? Collapse of manufacturing sector, leading to rise in poverty?

There is no misaligned goal. China isn’t out to destroy the US.

It’s more jealousy of being overpowered. It’s sad but I think this is ultimately the brutal truth we have to accept. There’s no other logical outlook on this. Literally if left to its own devices China isn’t interested in the war.

The US is out to do everything to stop Chinas ascendency to become the new world power. And of course both sides as a result will increase military presence but neither side wants to engage in war.

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#109

Post by motorest »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #42
motorest wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People seems generally uninterested in fixing this too. What problem do you think needs fixing?

Being entirely dependent on Chinese manufacturing to make anything. This also has the downstream effect of no one young learning how to make stuff, which then leaves you as a society that is forced to buy everything from China, and puts China in an excellent position to rug pull American society if they want. I can tell your first hand, that the engineers in the hardware/physical product space probably have an averag…

> Being entirely dependent on Chinese manufacturing to make anything.

I'm sorry, it's very hard to take this sort of concern seriously.

The express goal of US's take on neoliberalism was to dump all manufacturing onto countries like China while abusing IP to prevent anyone else, China included, from ever being able to compete.

Now that the rules that the US abused to stifle innovation are being used by someone else to protect their own investment, you suddenly cry foul?

The US needs to put on their big boy pants and figure out ways to compete in the same terms that everyone else had to endure, just like the whole world was forced to learn how to deal with that. If someone else has the IP you need, pay them. Or do you honestly expect that arbitrary rules are only acceptable if they clearly benefit you alone?

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#110

Post by pif »

reactordev wrote: post #48
simpaticoder wrote: post #11

The real story here is that IP ownership is capital-intensive when it shouldn't be. Open-source and community-led IP contributions are grossly under-protected because of this, and those with capital become unopposed predators. This is a special-case of the more general observation that the justice system is capital-intensive when it shouldn't be. The answer is something you very rarely hear: the US (especially) needs…

While I don't entirely disagree with you. You have to understand why the courts exist at all. To govern working class citizens. Laws are written by the powerful and wealthy - always has been - to control the working class (everyone else). You're freedom is an illusion. A social contract agreed upon by you following certain rules. Those rules, written by the wealthy, don't apply to the wealthy. In a just society they…

> we have ceased to be a just society for the last 50 years

How could I guess you are not black?

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