241–250 of 278 posts
Normally, I'm not a fan of always relying on incentives, but you can't begin to tackle this problem without understanding, and being grossly open about the fact that it's almost certainly not a "tech capability/efficiency" problem, but a (naturally) greedy financial sector company problem.
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Which is why you take both but make the credit card customer eat the fees. Then many customers will save you (i.e. themselves) the money by paying cash and the ones that insist on using a credit card are free to pay what it actually costs.
Why do I almost never see a cash discount like this in practice? An I shopping in the wrong places? Or does something else prevent it?
One, inertia. Companies haven't realized they're allowed to do it now. That'll change over time.
Two, there are ways to transfer "cash" digitally without paying the credit card fees (i.e. ACH), and there are reasons to want to use digital payments -- making payments over the internet being a major one -- but ACH is ancient and it needs some kind of modern open standard in order to do things like make a payment request and determine in real-time whether the source account actually exists and has sufficient balance to make the payment. Various attempts to do that are constantly being made and constantly being fought against by Visa et al.
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Huh, I didn't know that about Target (perhaps because I've lived for years in a state that doesn't allow this, so I can't get the discount where I live). I did know that recurring utility-type payments, and payments of more than a couple thousand dollars, tend not to accept credit cards or to charge a lot extra for them, presumably because it's not as costly for them to make their users eat the inconvenience of setti…
> Huh, I didn't know that about Target (perhaps because I've lived for years in a state that doesn't allow this, so I can't get the discount where I live) I linked to a website that shows the federal government specifically allowing it. You can definitely get a 5% discount in your states’ Targets for paying with a debit card: https://www.target.com/circlecard > Do you know how they're handling the American Express pr…
It seems pretty uncontroversial on the internet that American Express has this policy, and I can't find anyone alleging that Dodd–Frank prohibits it. There is a class action lawsuit against American Express alleging that the policy is illegal (https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/legaldocs/zdvxngqeovx/...), but it makes its argument on antitrust grounds and does not cite Dodd–Frank—which it would surely do if there were a plausible argument that Dodd–Frank prohibits this. I don't know exactly how this squares with the text of the FTC's business-guidance page, but that page is a concise summary and doesn't get into all the details of the law, so my guess is that the situations it applies to are somehow different from what American Express is doing.
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> Huh, I didn't know that about Target (perhaps because I've lived for years in a state that doesn't allow this, so I can't get the discount where I live) I linked to a website that shows the federal government specifically allowing it. You can definitely get a 5% discount in your states’ Targets for paying with a debit card: https://www.target.com/circlecard > Do you know how they're handling the American Express pr…
Oh, this is a specific co-branded card, that's a different thing and one I've seen a bunch of places. It seems pretty uncontroversial on the internet that American Express has this policy, and I can't find anyone alleging that Dodd–Frank prohibits it. There is a class action lawsuit against American Express alleging that the policy is illegal ( https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/legaldocs/zdvxngqeovx/... ), but it…
Your Amex lawsuit link is about Amex prohibiting different discounts based on payment card networks (see #4 at bottom of page 2).
Amex’s contract does not overrule the federal government’s rule that a merchant can offer a discount for debit and cash.
The Supreme Court upheld AmEx’s steering provisions in 2018.
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I couldn't get a wallet app to work with GrapheneOS, so for me, QR codes are better, but they feel like they have different use cases. I like QR codes in mail invoices (very common in CH), I'd like NFC in a shop if I could use it.
Im im the same boat. Luckily in ny case a local banking app has their own NFC card Funktion witch works flawlessly. But no tap to pay would for me have been one of the greatest downsides with graphene os.
[1] https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa...
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Oh, this is a specific co-branded card, that's a different thing and one I've seen a bunch of places. It seems pretty uncontroversial on the internet that American Express has this policy, and I can't find anyone alleging that Dodd–Frank prohibits it. There is a class action lawsuit against American Express alleging that the policy is illegal ( https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/legaldocs/zdvxngqeovx/... ), but it…
It’s not really a co branded card. They send you a Target Redcard you can ignore, but all it does is charge your debit card as usual. There is no credit check. Your Amex lawsuit link is about Amex prohibiting different discounts based on payment card networks (see #4 at bottom of page 2). Amex’s contract does not overrule the federal government’s rule that a merchant can offer a discount for debit and cash. The Supre…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s not really a co branded card. They send you a Target Redcard you can ignore, but all it does is charge your debit card as usual. There is no credit check. Your Amex lawsuit link is about Amex prohibiting different discounts based on payment card networks (see #4 at bottom of page 2). Amex’s contract does not overrule the federal government’s rule that a merchant can offer a discount for debit and cash. The Supre…
Page 10: "Under Amex’s NDPs, the merchant...may not impose a 'parity surcharge' on credit card transactions, meaning a surcharge in which the merchant assesses the same surcharge amount on all credit card brands and does not surcharge debit cards at all."
The federal regulations specifically allow discounts, and presumably some lawyers will argue that a surcharge is different from a discount.
Amex is trying to do all it can, but still can’t tell a merchant they cannot advertise a discount for cash/debit.
Maybe this is a way to break the credit card duopoly: offer something (like public bathrooms) that requires your card, and then try to expand it from there.
Istanbul has a card that you can use to pay for some things like public transit and have to use to pay for public bathrooms (because that's so cheap that if you paid with credit card, the fee would more expensive than the payment). Maybe this is a way to break the credit card duopoly: offer something (like public bathrooms) that requires your card, and then try to expand it from there.
Famous Japanese example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suica
The plan:
1) Build correct and cryptographically sound open protocol for NFC cash-cards
2) Offer tech to public transport (as free open source)
3) Boom. Millions of users of an open payments system