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Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

zenobiapay.com

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Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#231

Post by SteveNuts »

FredPret wrote: post #230

Let me say first of all that the card networks do great work enabling commerce by being lightning-fast and generally secure. I can securely complete transactions and subscriptions with ~anyone on the planet in mere seconds. But holy cow do they have large margins. 40-50%! The profit growth charts on these two are a sight to behold. http://valustox.com/MA http://valustox.com/V The situation is simply begging for disru…

It's amazing how it wasn't that long ago that you'd walk into an establishment and ask if they accept cards instead of cash only.

Going into rural areas it's still not a 100% given that all places will accept cards.

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#234

Post by alsetmusic »

thunfischtoast wrote: post #112

Interesting read. I'd suggest next time choosing a name that does not sound close to Xenophobia :) anyway, good luck on your further journey

This was my first thought as well. It reads like a dog-whistle at first glance.

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#235

Post by maxglute »

wat10000 wrote: post #168
olliem36 wrote: post #142

Cofounder of Lopay here - we have the same mission: offer free payments to businesses, but we're working with existing networks to do this. QR code payments are particularly hard in countries like US and UK as you're trying to change consumer behaviour. I tried doing this in 2014 and again in 2019 - both failed to gain traction (aside from during COVID). In the UK it's possible to accept card payments for 0% via Lopa…

QR codes feel like such a step backwards compared to NFC. The UX with current mobile OSes is not good. And if you require an app, or even worse an active data connection, well, I much prefer a quick double-click of my phone’s side button and then putting it near the payment terminal. And I’m really skeptical about security. NFC is vulnerable to relay attacks and QR codes can be secured by using one-time codes or roll…

QR code is more alternative to cash. Anyone can setup QR payment vs getting NFC POS terminal. IMO when you can reasonably expect day to day to be completely cashless down to smallest of merchant, it's more convenient compromise vs NFC + cash.

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#236

Post by kennywinker »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #154
kennywinker wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem of paying 1-3% of every purchase to credit card companies, causing everything to cost 1-3% more.

Are merchants going to charge different prices depending on your payment method? Or stop taking visa/MasterCard entirely? I don't see either one of those happening.

So, you don’t believe that a non-governmental tax on every transaction causes prices to rise? Because you’d be in disagreement with probably every economist ever.

Or are you just saying change is impossible so why bother?

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#237

Post by jvergeldedios »

SteveNuts wrote: post #231
FredPret wrote: post #230

Let me say first of all that the card networks do great work enabling commerce by being lightning-fast and generally secure. I can securely complete transactions and subscriptions with ~anyone on the planet in mere seconds. But holy cow do they have large margins. 40-50%! The profit growth charts on these two are a sight to behold. http://valustox.com/MA http://valustox.com/V The situation is simply begging for disru…

It's amazing how it wasn't that long ago that you'd walk into an establishment and ask if they accept cards instead of cash only. Going into rural areas it's still not a 100% given that all places will accept cards.

Even more interesting is the small establishments that skipped over credit cards straight into Venmo/Zelle.

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#238

Post by orthecreedence »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #154
kennywinker wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem of paying 1-3% of every purchase to credit card companies, causing everything to cost 1-3% more.

Are merchants going to charge different prices depending on your payment method? Or stop taking visa/MasterCard entirely? I don't see either one of those happening.

> Are merchants going to charge different prices depending on your payment method?

They are barred from doing so by credit card companies. That's why many smaller shops have "cash preferred" signs.

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#239

Post by ameliaquining »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #212
ameliaquining wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no longer a blanket ban, but there are still obstacles: * Mastercard and Visa don't allow debit card surcharges, even if the transaction is run as "credit". * American Express only allows surcharges if they also apply to all other forms of card payment. This includes debit cards, which interacts problematically with the previous rule; if you want to do a card surcharge while accepting all three card brands an…

A cash and debit card discount is the same as a credit card surcharge, I fail to see how this qualifies as “significantly harder”. Target, one of the largest retailers, offers a 5% discount for debit. Comcast, Tmobile, Verizon, ATT, Lumen, utilities, governments, and insurance companies also routinely charge extra for credit cards (or discounts for debit/cash). Daycares charge more for credit card, as do doctors’ off…

Huh, I didn't know that about Target (perhaps because I've lived for years in a state that doesn't allow this, so I can't get the discount where I live).

I did know that recurring utility-type payments, and payments of more than a couple thousand dollars, tend not to accept credit cards or to charge a lot extra for them, presumably because it's not as costly for them to make their users eat the inconvenience of setting up ACH payments. Most merchants can't get away with that. I've also seen it for gasoline but chalked this up to gasoline being an unusually fungible and high-demand commodity.

Do you know how they're handling the American Express problem? I don't think I've noticed a big contraction in how many merchants accept it.

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#240

Post by lotsofpulp »

ameliaquining wrote: post #239
lotsofpulp wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A cash and debit card discount is the same as a credit card surcharge, I fail to see how this qualifies as “significantly harder”. Target, one of the largest retailers, offers a 5% discount for debit. Comcast, Tmobile, Verizon, ATT, Lumen, utilities, governments, and insurance companies also routinely charge extra for credit cards (or discounts for debit/cash). Daycares charge more for credit card, as do doctors’ off…

Huh, I didn't know that about Target (perhaps because I've lived for years in a state that doesn't allow this, so I can't get the discount where I live). I did know that recurring utility-type payments, and payments of more than a couple thousand dollars, tend not to accept credit cards or to charge a lot extra for them, presumably because it's not as costly for them to make their users eat the inconvenience of setti…

> Huh, I didn't know that about Target (perhaps because I've lived for years in a state that doesn't allow this, so I can't get the discount where I live)

I linked to a website that shows the federal government specifically allowing it. You can definitely get a 5% discount in your states’ Targets for paying with a debit card:

https://www.target.com/circlecard

> Do you know how they're handling the American Express problem? I don't think I've noticed a big contraction in how many merchants accept it.

It’s not a problem. Refer back to the federal legislation that prohibits payment card networks from dictating cash and debit card discounts.

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