Live data from Hacker News

Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

news.sky.com

451–460 of 636 posts

Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#451
post #22

The UK is quickly deploying surveillance state technology that people once decried China for. Whether or not this is ethical or useful, I wish the hypocrisy would be acknowledged. The OSA, the Apple encryption demands, LFR, …, it’s clearly a trend. Has society really become this dangerous that we must deploy these things?

>Has society really become this dangerous that we must deploy these things?

Over the last hundred years, violent crime has droped sharply worldwide.

Over the last twenty years, it has fallen alot in developed countries such as Western Europe, North America, Japan and South Korea.

In the United Kingdom, both violent and property crime have gone down in the past two decades. The main exception is fraud, scams and cybercrime, which have increased.

Overall, crime, especially violent crime, is far lower now than it used to be.

So why does it not feel that way? Mostly because we are floded with news about every incident. It sticks in our heads and makes us beleive things are worse than they are. It is like air travel: whenever there is a major crash, the headlines fill up with every minor incident, even though flying has never been safer than it is today.

This is less about criminality and more about control.

There's definitely an argument to be made that things have gotten safer because we have more surveillance, but that argument also has many valid counter-arguments, and giving away your freedom for absolute law and order isn't the way to go in my opinion, especially when you use narratives like "crime in DC is at an all time high" like we've seen in the USA lately which is false. https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/violent-crime-dc-hits-30-...

A balance of surveillance and freedom is necessary for a healthy society. (By surveillance in this context, I mean simple things like CCTVs, police patrols, not necessarily drag-nets, face rec, whatever mind you).

Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#452
post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the EU has literally banned facial recognition by law enforcement across the entire bloc. HN has terrible EU Derangement Syndrome: any time its mentioned here, suddenly there are tens of people lining up to blindly shit on it, usually for laws it hasn't actually passed, or literal anti-truths like your comment, despite the fact that it is consistently passing the best tech-focused laws of any major governmental body…

> the EU has literally banned facial recognition by law enforcement across the entire bloc. This is simply wrong: They have banned _live_ facial recognition - and with exemptions such as e.g. for terrorism and other severe crimes, which is becoming quite broad. They are allowing facial recognition when done after-the-fact for law enforcement. Probably also for petty crimes.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20240308IP...

if you're going to change the central focus of your comment, do it in a reply not an edit

Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#453
post #22

The UK is quickly deploying surveillance state technology that people once decried China for. Whether or not this is ethical or useful, I wish the hypocrisy would be acknowledged. The OSA, the Apple encryption demands, LFR, …, it’s clearly a trend. Has society really become this dangerous that we must deploy these things?

>Has society really become this dangerous that we must deploy these things? Over the last hundred years, violent crime has droped sharply worldwide. Over the last twenty years, it has fallen alot in developed countries such as Western Europe, North America, Japan and South Korea. In the United Kingdom, both violent and property crime have gone down in the past two decades. The main exception is fraud, scams and cyber…

[flagged]

Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#454
post #22

The UK is quickly deploying surveillance state technology that people once decried China for. Whether or not this is ethical or useful, I wish the hypocrisy would be acknowledged. The OSA, the Apple encryption demands, LFR, …, it’s clearly a trend. Has society really become this dangerous that we must deploy these things?

The first time I taught, it was a rather interesting experience realizing how little capacity teachers actually have to deal with e.g. a disruptive student. Yeah you can pass them along to the disciplinarian or whatever, but in the end it's often empty threats - especially if the parents themselves don't particularly care, which in the case of highly disruptive students is nearly always the case. But if a class itsel…

men and women**

Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#455
post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

except no, the EU has specifically outlawed facial recognition in public places

They have outlawed _live_ facial recognition in public places. And with exemptions such as e.g. terrorism, which I'm guessing is what UK is going to go for with protesters.

my friend, I'm sorry but this is simply a factual bridge too far. the EU has quite specifically brought out wide-ranging laws heavily restricting the very thing the UK is doing, plus a load of other very positive restrictions on the use of AI and biometrics in general, and yet your conclusion is that they're on the same path? it's like if I say I'm never going to eat meat except rare unavoidable occasions, and you think I'm en route to becoming the liver king. just admit you like criticising the EU and be done with it

Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#456
post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Culture and race are not the same thing. I don't remember bringing up race. Another interesting leap. But please do elaborate on what sort of 'dominant culture' you're longing for and what sort of policies you'd love to see to (re-)establish that 'dominant culture' to resolve the incredibly new phenomenon of teenagers being rude and rebelling against social norms. Come on, don't be a coward and just drop the dogwhi…

Sorry, I thought you were dogwhistling. A dominant culture means a step back from individualist values. The most effective 'policies' are created through communities not through law. We cannot rely only on the law for a healthy society; it is necessary but not sufficient. Rebelling against cultural norms is not the problem. The problem is when people escalate quickly because of it and threaten others. That means the…

You randomly bring up multiculturalism as a problem to be solved in response to a story about a rude teenager of unknown cultural background, and assume I'm dogwhistling? Please elaborate because all I'm seeing here is projection.

But I see we've pivoted from "multiculturalism bad" to pseudo-intellectual theorizing about collective cultural conformity. Very smooth. Different packaging, still trying to sell the same product, though.

> The problem is when people escalate quickly because of it and threaten others.

Guy asked teenager to use headphones, teenager got defensive, guy put in earplugs. That's... literally de-escalation and conflict avoidance. Are we reading the same anecdote?

You've managed to escalate "rude teenager won't use headphones" into a lament about the decline of Western civilization and the need for cultural homogeneity. It's almost impressive how much ideological weight you're hanging on one kid's refusal to wear headphones.

Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it hasn’t become so dangerous and surveillance doesn’t help. Neither cameras nor real-name accounts actually helped to prevent crimes. Same with databases, lists or other surveillance tools. Many criminals who committed terrorism were known to the police before and they chose not to act or processes were not in place. All it does is lead to less freedom and security. The government itself is the security threat. T…

> Many criminals who committed terrorism were known to the police before and they chose not to act or processes were not in place In the case of the UK they've often also been operating in collusion with state forces, see: Northern Ireland.

it's always easier to get funding if there's a threat

Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#458
post #22

The UK is quickly deploying surveillance state technology that people once decried China for. Whether or not this is ethical or useful, I wish the hypocrisy would be acknowledged. The OSA, the Apple encryption demands, LFR, …, it’s clearly a trend. Has society really become this dangerous that we must deploy these things?

In some ways, it's far exceeded China.

China is strict with people rioting or complaining a little too much about the government, but they don't lock people up for saying general no no words or being too patriotic/nationalistic online. And apparently Chinese courts even limited facial recognition (no clue how it'll work in practice though). [1]

[1] https://www.reuters.com/technology/china-says-facial-recogni...

Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#459
post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have outlawed _live_ facial recognition in public places. And with exemptions such as e.g. terrorism, which I'm guessing is what UK is going to go for with protesters.

my friend, I'm sorry but this is simply a factual bridge too far. the EU has quite specifically brought out wide-ranging laws heavily restricting the very thing the UK is doing, plus a load of other very positive restrictions on the use of AI and biometrics in general, and yet your conclusion is that they're on the same path? it's like if I say I'm never going to eat meat except rare unavoidable occasions, and you th…

What is non-factual?

We have another token legislation from EU forbidding private parties to most anything, and carefully inserting loopholes for authorities and government to do as they please.

True, the restrictions on live facial recognition is a bit more severe for law enforcement than usual.

But: A. It's not something most people here care about a lot. Law enforcement are still allowed to use AI to create a file on every citizen. B. It gives them political points, because now people less-in-the-know will think that they are actually protecting privacy, which is again, not true.

Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#460
post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the EU has literally banned facial recognition by law enforcement across the entire bloc. This is simply wrong: They have banned _live_ facial recognition - and with exemptions such as e.g. for terrorism and other severe crimes, which is becoming quite broad. They are allowing facial recognition when done after-the-fact for law enforcement. Probably also for petty crimes.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20240308IP... if you're going to change the central focus of your comment, do it in a reply not an edit

I edited mine after you edited yours.

Here is an article about live/post facial recognition:

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-ai-facial-recognition-tec...

Post reply on HN