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Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

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Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#61

Post by SJC_Hacker »

ceejayoz wrote: post #50
Tor3 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The incentive for merchants to accept cards for payment is that it'll increase number of sales. And it does. In principle this should even out over all sales.. but cards do make it easier for consumers do purchase stuff, and I'm absolutely sure that I personally spend money way easier with a card than without (not that I spend more than I make, mind). The total number of sales go up. I haven't used cash in my home co…

> A lot of shops, restaurants, and other establishments have stopped accepting cash, even if it's illegal to do so (legal tender etc). No. This is a misunderstanding of legal tender. https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm "There is no federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are fr…

> egal tender only applies to debts.

I used to think that was true, but try paying parking fines, etc. with pennies. Legal tender has never been challenged in court to my knowledge

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#62

Post by Tor3 »

heavensteeth wrote: post #55
Tor3 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't - using cards, with fees, is cheaper than cash. I realized that when shops started to refuse cash (even if cash is legal tender and they, by law, _have_ to accept cash). The argument? Cash is too expensive.

> even if cash is legal tender and they, by law, _have_ to accept cash this is not true as it is not what "legal tender" means. Legal tender is something that the government must accept as payment, not private enterprise. > Businesses don’t have to accept cash.[0] > There is no federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or service…

That depends on the country. There are many countries (including my own) where any business must accept certain parts of the cash payment system (around here a taxi doesn't have to accept the highest-value bank note, but the rest cannot be refused). And shops, of course. That's why newspapers bother to write articles about it.

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#63

Post by blitzar »

albiinics wrote: post #16
bruce511 wrote: post #5

When you start at the wrong premise, you typically end up in the wrong place. The premise is that credit cards (visa / Mastercard) is broken. When actually it works really well. For starters it works everywhere. Online. IRL. In my home country, in foreign lands. Secondly it costs the consumer nothing. The cost goes to the merchant. If anything the customer gets rewards. Merchants might pay 3%, (and ultimately yes, th…

This is like says the tarrifs are paid by the other countries, not the US citizens. In reality, there is no competition in the payment systems. Free markets mean competition.

All business costs are either paid for by the VCs or the customer. Even the VCs end up getting paid by the customers in the end.

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#64

Post by [deleted] »

sampullman wrote: post #7
bruce511 wrote: post #5

When you start at the wrong premise, you typically end up in the wrong place. The premise is that credit cards (visa / Mastercard) is broken. When actually it works really well. For starters it works everywhere. Online. IRL. In my home country, in foreign lands. Secondly it costs the consumer nothing. The cost goes to the merchant. If anything the customer gets rewards. Merchants might pay 3%, (and ultimately yes, th…

If it's ultimately in the price of goods, then it doesn't cost the consumer nothing, no matter how you spin it. It's just cleverly hidden. I think it's close to impossible to "fix" Visa without government intervention (e.g. limit fees to a fraction of a percent), but I'm still grateful to anyone who tries.

[deleted]

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#65

Post by ubercow13 »

Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #30
Tor3 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't - using cards, with fees, is cheaper than cash. I realized that when shops started to refuse cash (even if cash is legal tender and they, by law, _have_ to accept cash). The argument? Cash is too expensive.

how is cash too expensive?? huh?

Of course cash is expensive, you have to handle it, count it, transport it. Haven't you ever seen those heavily armoured cash delivery vehicles? I mean just think how inefficient cash obviously is in every aspect of how it works compared to modern tech.

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#66

Post by camillomiller »

nottorp wrote: post #57
bruce511 wrote: post #5

When you start at the wrong premise, you typically end up in the wrong place. The premise is that credit cards (visa / Mastercard) is broken. When actually it works really well. For starters it works everywhere. Online. IRL. In my home country, in foreign lands. Secondly it costs the consumer nothing. The cost goes to the merchant. If anything the customer gets rewards. Merchants might pay 3%, (and ultimately yes, th…

> For starters it works everywhere. Online. IRL. In my home country, in foreign lands. Only if Visa/MC agree with the item being sold though. Be careful to not get hobbies that some religious pressure group hates. Today sex, maybe tomorrow rock climbing or fixing your own motorcycle.

OP wasn’t defending VISA policies, they were just realistically describing how taking on CC circuits with this premise is a risky approach that tries to fix a problem potential customers don’t have. What you are saying is in a completely different domain. Personally I think you’re right, but the only way to solve that is regulating the payment giants as a public utility, not picking a fight against a business model that is a lot of things, but not broken.

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#68

Post by dragonwriter »

SJC_Hacker wrote: post #61
ceejayoz wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A lot of shops, restaurants, and other establishments have stopped accepting cash, even if it's illegal to do so (legal tender etc). No. This is a misunderstanding of legal tender. https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm "There is no federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are fr…

> egal tender only applies to debts. I used to think that was true, but try paying parking fines, etc. with pennies. Legal tender has never been challenged in court to my knowledge

> Legal tender has never been challenged in court to my knowledge

It was challenged and upheld, both as against debts before the the legal tender acts were passed and those after, by the Supreme Court in Knox v. Lee (1871).

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