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Study: Social media probably can't be fixed

arstechnica.com

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Re: Study: Social media probably can't be fixed

#81

Post by Zak »

lemming wrote: post #74
Zak wrote: post #54

The study is based on having LLMs decide to amplify one of the top ten posts on their timeline or share a news headline. LLMs aren’t people, and the authors have not convinced me that they will behave like people in this context. The behavioral options are restricted to posting news headlines, reposting news headlines, or being passive. There’s no option to create original content, and no interventions centered on di…

LLMs aren’t people, and the authors have not convinced me that they will behave like people in this context. This was my initial reaction as well, before reading the interview in full. They admit that there are problems with the approach, but they seem to have designed the simulation in a very thoughtful way. There really doesn't seem to be a better approach, apart from enlisting vast numbers of people instead of usi…

I'm not sure the experiment can be done other than to try interventions on real users of a public social media service as Facebook did in the article I linked. Of course people running those services usually don't have the incentives to test harm reduction strategies and certainly don't want to publicize the results.

> the vast majority of users don't create original content

That's true now at least most of the time, but I think it's as much because of design and algorithmic decisions by the platforms to emphasize other types of content. Early Facebook in particular was mostly original content shared between people who knew each other. The biggest problem with that was it wasn't very profitable.

Re: Study: Social media probably can't be fixed

#82

Post by positron26 »

point-to-point communication between every human on Earth to every other human on Earth flattens communication hierarchies that used to amplify expertise and a lot of other behaviors. We created new hierarchies, but they are mostly demagogues pandering to the middle. Direct delegation is sort of like trying to process an image without convolution. Nobody knows what anyone else thinks, so we just trust that one neuron.

Re: Study: Social media probably can't be fixed

#83

Post by nradov »

lemming wrote: post #74
Zak wrote: post #54

The study is based on having LLMs decide to amplify one of the top ten posts on their timeline or share a news headline. LLMs aren’t people, and the authors have not convinced me that they will behave like people in this context. The behavioral options are restricted to posting news headlines, reposting news headlines, or being passive. There’s no option to create original content, and no interventions centered on di…

LLMs aren’t people, and the authors have not convinced me that they will behave like people in this context. This was my initial reaction as well, before reading the interview in full. They admit that there are problems with the approach, but they seem to have designed the simulation in a very thoughtful way. There really doesn't seem to be a better approach, apart from enlisting vast numbers of people instead of usi…

Nonsense. The vast majority of my Facebook friends post at least some original content.

Re: Study: Social media probably can't be fixed

#84

Post by Physkal »

fellowniusmonk wrote: post #43
barbazoo wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds interesting. How did that work, did you rent a place for coworking and then opened it up for the social aspect?

My tech (I was founding engineer and CTO) company took over a co-working space and expanded it, we ran that portion of it at break even. We intentionally set out to create a social club/co-working space. A lot goes into it. I'm a non-theist who comes from a multi generational group of theist church planters (like 100s of churches, just over and over), it's a multi factorial process with distinct transitions in space-…

I woul love to hear more about this. I am in need of a 3rd place, but unfortunately the only meetups around are sports or churches here. What did the members in your group do after you shut down? Were you open to members offering donations to keep your 3rd place going?

Re: Study: Social media probably can't be fixed

#85

Post by mindwok »

thrown-0825 wrote: post #80

The problem is people. As a species we are greedy, self serving, and short sighted. Social Media amplifies that, and we are well on our way to destroying ourselves.

This is true as individuals, but importantly as a society we have far more agency than sometimes it feels like when you watch us all acting out our own individual self-destruction.

Banning CFCs, making seatbelts a legal requirement, making drink driving illegal, gun control (in countries outside the USA), regulations on school canteens. These are all examples of coordination where we've solved problems further upstream so that individuals don't have to fight against their own greedy, self-serving, short-sighted nature.

We do have the ability to fix this stuff, it's just messy.

Re: Study: Social media probably can't be fixed

#86

Post by mindwok »

SkepticalWhale wrote: post #8

I'd like to see more software that amplifies local social interactions. There are apps like Meetup, but a lot of people just find it too awkward. Introverts especially do not want to meet just for the sake of meeting people, so they fallback on social media. Maybe this situation is fundamentally not helped by software. All of my best friendships organically formed in real-world settings like school, work, neighborhoo…

This isn't a technology problem. Technology can help accessibility, but fundamentally this is an on-the-ground, social coordination problem.

Functioning, welcoming, and well-ran communities are the only thing that solves this. Unfortunately, technology often makes this worse, because it creates such a convenient alternative and also creates a paradox of choice. I.e. people think "when there's 1000 meetups to check out, and this one isn't perfect, I'll just move onto the next one" when actually it's the act of commitment that makes a community good.

Re: Study: Social media probably can't be fixed

#87

Post by lemming »

nradov wrote: post #83
lemming wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LLMs aren’t people, and the authors have not convinced me that they will behave like people in this context. This was my initial reaction as well, before reading the interview in full. They admit that there are problems with the approach, but they seem to have designed the simulation in a very thoughtful way. There really doesn't seem to be a better approach, apart from enlisting vast numbers of people instead of usi…

Nonsense. The vast majority of my Facebook friends post at least some original content.

Fortunately we don't have to rely on your anecdata, people actually study this stuff:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/467792/social-media-users-incli...

U.S. adults commonly engage with popular social media platforms but are more inclined to browse content on those websites and apps than to post their own content to them. The vast majority of those who say they use these platforms have accounts with them, but less than half who have accounts -- and even smaller proportions of all U.S. adults -- post their own content.

https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2019/04/24/sizing-up-tw...

Most users rarely tweet, but the most prolific 10% create 80% of tweets from adult U.S. users

https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2021/11/15/the-behavior...

The analysis also reveals another familiar pattern on social media: that a relatively small share of highly active users produce the vast majority of content.

Re: Study: Social media probably can't be fixed

#88

Post by AraceliHarker »

_mlbt wrote: post #61
unsignedint wrote: post #59

Social media as a vessel for diverse discussion is a tall order. It’s too public, too tied to context, and ultimately a no-win game. No matter how carefully you present yourself, you’ll end up being the “bad guy” to someone. The moment a discussion touches even lightly on controversy, healthy dialogue becomes nearly impossible. Think of it this way: you’re hosting a party, and an uninvited stranger kicks the door ope…

I still think old school linear forums are the best format for online discussion. They’re not perfect by any means, but I think they still beat all the alternatives I’ve tried.

The internet has become a primary battlefield for making money, and we can't go back to the days when it was just a non-commercial hobby that people enjoyed. To make money online, it's crucial to spread content as widely as possible, and the most effective methods for this are clickbait and ragebait. That's why the enshittification of the internet was inevitable.

Re: Study: Social media probably can't be fixed

#89

Post by thrown-0825 »

mindwok wrote: post #85
thrown-0825 wrote: post #80

The problem is people. As a species we are greedy, self serving, and short sighted. Social Media amplifies that, and we are well on our way to destroying ourselves.

This is true as individuals, but importantly as a society we have far more agency than sometimes it feels like when you watch us all acting out our own individual self-destruction. Banning CFCs, making seatbelts a legal requirement, making drink driving illegal, gun control (in countries outside the USA), regulations on school canteens. These are all examples of coordination where we've solved problems further upstre…

If you don’t think societies can be greedy, self serving, and short sighted I don’t know what to say.

We have raped this planet into a coma and our children will have to scrape together whatever remains when we are done.

Re: Study: Social media probably can't be fixed

#90

Post by seanwilson »

Any interesting work on using LLMs to moderate posts/users? HN is often said to be different because of its moderation, couldn't you train an LLM moderator on similar rules to reduce trolls, ragebait, and low effort posts at scale?

A big problem I see is users in good faith are unable to hold back from replying to bad faith posts, a failure to follow the old "don't feed the trolls rule".

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