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US national debt reaches a record $37T, the Treasury Department reports

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Re: US national debt reaches a record $37T, the Treasury Department reports

#41

Post by epolanski »

mindslight wrote: post #9

I'm sure there were a lot of naive people who voted for the Republican party for their first time because something from Trump's word salad resonated with them, and they are now finding out what that Party is actually about. Surprise! All that whining about the debt was total kayfabe. Don't say we didn't try to warn you.

The political discourse globally has turned into a giant "us vs them". I'm Polish/Italian and in my countries it's similar to USA, we've just voted a populist troll as a president not because we like him but "because he's not one of those we despise".

Marketing, data scientists and strategist have effectively manipulated public opinion into further polarization.

Re: US national debt reaches a record $37T, the Treasury Department reports

#42

Post by jeffbee »

Terr_ wrote: post #6

For the visually-inclined, a graph of debt as a proportion of GDP [0]: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GFDGDPA188S Of course, this doesn't show projections for what the future debt will become after the Republican's "BBB" package from a few months ago. [0] Yes, I know GDP is a flawed measure, but as long as its flaws are consistent over the years it is useful for scaling.

Bill Clinton: the GOAT.

Re: US national debt reaches a record $37T, the Treasury Department reports

#43

Post by jhp123 »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #19

How do you guys see this ending? I don't see this ending well but I can't imagine what happens. Seems unsustainable but nobody wants to deal with it.

if the debt ever causes actual problems, e.g. we can't sell our treasury bonds, then our politicians will suddenly remember how to tax rich people.

In the mean time the impossible, unsustainable, terrifying national debt will be used to justify benefit cuts (like the upcoming privatization/cut of social security when the trust fund runs out in 7 years)

Re: US national debt reaches a record $37T, the Treasury Department reports

#44

Post by jeffbee »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #19

How do you guys see this ending? I don't see this ending well but I can't imagine what happens. Seems unsustainable but nobody wants to deal with it.

"Nobody wants to deal with it" except one of the two major parties which enjoys the support of the majority of the voters, who consistently deal with it when in power.

Re: US national debt reaches a record $37T, the Treasury Department reports

#45

Post by nickff »

jeffbee wrote: post #42
Terr_ wrote: post #6

For the visually-inclined, a graph of debt as a proportion of GDP [0]: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GFDGDPA188S Of course, this doesn't show projections for what the future debt will become after the Republican's "BBB" package from a few months ago. [0] Yes, I know GDP is a flawed measure, but as long as its flaws are consistent over the years it is useful for scaling.

Bill Clinton: the GOAT.

The end of the Cold War (allowing reduced defense spending), along with a massive asset bubble (with accompanying capital gains tax revenue increases) did wonders for the budget.

Re: US national debt reaches a record $37T, the Treasury Department reports

#46

Post by fzeroracer »

jhp123 wrote: post #43
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #19

How do you guys see this ending? I don't see this ending well but I can't imagine what happens. Seems unsustainable but nobody wants to deal with it.

if the debt ever causes actual problems, e.g. we can't sell our treasury bonds, then our politicians will suddenly remember how to tax rich people. In the mean time the impossible, unsustainable, terrifying national debt will be used to justify benefit cuts (like the upcoming privatization/cut of social security when the trust fund runs out in 7 years)

I think even in that situation, politicians will try and play ball with the rich since the majority of them are on that same side. But having to implement emergency austerity measures in this scenario would just outright blow up the US economy.

If the wealthy donors and corporate interests were smart they'd take a haircut on their wealth to try and stave off this issue but it seems we're mostly in a loot-and-raze craze. Realistically I would sooner expect an American-style French Revolution before we see the rich grow a sense of self-preservation.

Re: US national debt reaches a record $37T, the Treasury Department reports

#47

Post by thuridas »

nickff wrote: post #45
jeffbee wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bill Clinton: the GOAT.

The end of the Cold War (allowing reduced defense spending), along with a massive asset bubble (with accompanying capital gains tax revenue increases) did wonders for the budget.

And reducing taxes made the deficit bigger

Re: US national debt reaches a record $37T, the Treasury Department reports

#48

Post by biophysboy »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #19

How do you guys see this ending? I don't see this ending well but I can't imagine what happens. Seems unsustainable but nobody wants to deal with it.

If it makes you feel better, the owners of US treasury securities also do not want a debt-fueled collapse of the government. They are our assets as much as they are our liabilities.

Re: US national debt reaches a record $37T, the Treasury Department reports

#49

Post by pstuart »

jeffbee wrote: post #42
Terr_ wrote: post #6

For the visually-inclined, a graph of debt as a proportion of GDP [0]: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GFDGDPA188S Of course, this doesn't show projections for what the future debt will become after the Republican's "BBB" package from a few months ago. [0] Yes, I know GDP is a flawed measure, but as long as its flaws are consistent over the years it is useful for scaling.

Bill Clinton: the GOAT.

Back when the Congress was still semi-functional.

Re: US national debt reaches a record $37T, the Treasury Department reports

#50

Post by rbanffy »

emchammer wrote: post #31
secabeen wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you specifically see? I see two big increases in debt, both due to shocks (the 08 financial crisis, and the pandemic; one under Obama, and one under Trump.). Pre 2008, it does look like moderate increases under Reagan/Bush1 and Bush 2, and flat to decrease under Clinton, is that what you mean?

Yes, that's roughly what I see. The bottom of the Y axis on this graph is 30% which can be a little deceptive. It looks to me like Clinton and Obama had a terrible challenge in bringing this under control following the early 1980s and the 2008 financial crises and they did what they could, and then there is also Reaganomics. It just looks so hopeless because this figure is as high as it was following the war. Now Bif…

> I don't think the system was meant to handle human greed on this scale.

It was held together by decorum. There is none left.

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