Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US national debt reaches a record $37T, the Treasury Department reports

apnews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 169 posts

Re: US national debt reaches a record $37T, the Treasury Department reports

#21

Post by kamikazeturtles »

Terr_ wrote: post #6

For the visually-inclined, a graph of debt as a proportion of GDP [0]: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GFDGDPA188S Of course, this doesn't show projections for what the future debt will become after the Republican's "BBB" package from a few months ago. [0] Yes, I know GDP is a flawed measure, but as long as its flaws are consistent over the years it is useful for scaling.

> Yes, I know GDP is a flawed measure, but as long as its flaws are consistent over the years it is useful for scaling.

I don't think they can be considered consistent over the years. 20% of our GDP is healthcare and that's only going to grow as the population ages. I don't know what percent of the GDP is financial services but that'll probably also grow until we get something akin to 2008 again.

Including healthcare and financial services in GDP figures feels out of place and unproductive but I'm not an economist so I don't know what I'm talking about.

Then you have the services sector which makes you reconsider what the point of calculating a country's GDP is to begin with?

Re: US national debt reaches a record $37T, the Treasury Department reports

#22

Post by voldacar »

tencentshill wrote: post #7
bradhe wrote: post #5

Reported. It'll be amended soon after the statisticians get fired and yes-men get put in.

Current treasury head is Scott Bessent, previously of Soros Fund Management and Key Square Group. He's far too qualified to be part of this administration. Expect him gone soon.

Taking bets?

Re: US national debt reaches a record $37T, the Treasury Department reports

#24

Post by stock_toaster »

Terr_ wrote: post #6

For the visually-inclined, a graph of debt as a proportion of GDP [0]: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GFDGDPA188S Of course, this doesn't show projections for what the future debt will become after the Republican's "BBB" package from a few months ago. [0] Yes, I know GDP is a flawed measure, but as long as its flaws are consistent over the years it is useful for scaling.

This graph[0] is also pretty interesting.

[0]: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYGFGDQ188S

Re: US national debt reaches a record $37T, the Treasury Department reports

#25

Post by OgsyedIE »

tencentshill wrote: post #7
bradhe wrote: post #5

Reported. It'll be amended soon after the statisticians get fired and yes-men get put in.

Current treasury head is Scott Bessent, previously of Soros Fund Management and Key Square Group. He's far too qualified to be part of this administration. Expect him gone soon.

He's said on Fox Business today that on the basis of whatever agreements have been made in Alaska the US now considers the public and private holdings of its European allies + Japan to be part of an American sovereign wealth fund that can be expropriated whenever some cash is needed.

Either he's lying about that or he has guaranteed a position as Trump's number one favourite after Lighthizer.

Re: US national debt reaches a record $37T, the Treasury Department reports

#26

Post by georgemcbay »

emchammer wrote: post #18
Terr_ wrote: post #6

For the visually-inclined, a graph of debt as a proportion of GDP [0]: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GFDGDPA188S Of course, this doesn't show projections for what the future debt will become after the Republican's "BBB" package from a few months ago. [0] Yes, I know GDP is a flawed measure, but as long as its flaws are consistent over the years it is useful for scaling.

It looks like it was under control for a while following World War II, but then from the early 1980s, it's hard for me not correlate the first derivative of the slope of that graph with presidential party.

> It looks like it was under control for a while following World War II, but then from the early 1980

Democrats had a near solid lock on Congress from World War II until the early 1980s (only 2 two year sessions where they didn't control both chambers) and Congress hadn't abdicated its power of the purse.

Republicans spend a lot of time branding themselves as the "party of fiscal responsibility", but ask yourself in what situations a group needs heavy branding by way of incessant self messaging. By every major objective measure, Republican control of government has been worse for the economy.

And to be clear, none of this reply is meant as a defense of the current Democratic party which is currently (at the national level) leaderless and in shambles and is far too captured by its donor class of special interests to protect the interests of the American working and middle classes and who will be unable to regain real power until they address that.

Re: US national debt reaches a record $37T, the Treasury Department reports

#27

Post by jiggawatts »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #19

How do you guys see this ending? I don't see this ending well but I can't imagine what happens. Seems unsustainable but nobody wants to deal with it.

I’ve always said America is the richest third world country on the planet. Just like tinpot dictatorships accumulating IMF debt, the orange dictator in the Whitehouse will keep taking on debt for completely selfish political points and zero consideration of “the people” or the future. He’s 79 years old. What future?

In the coming decades the USA will end up just like every other failed state.

Women will have their reproductive rights taken away so they can be men’s property and fulfil their traditional roles and responsibilities.

Intellectual institutions will be defunded or outright abolished, because they oppose the regime’s messaging.

The minority in charge will scapegoat some already powerless minority to distract the general populace. In the end, their own propaganda will force their hand and they’ll have to enact some sort of dire measure, a “final solution” like concentration camps.

Despite the dire state of the economy, military spending will paradoxically increase and the armed forces will be increasingly used against citizens.

…oh.

Too late, I guess.

Re: US national debt reaches a record $37T, the Treasury Department reports

#29

Post by [deleted] »

OgsyedIE wrote: post #25
tencentshill wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Current treasury head is Scott Bessent, previously of Soros Fund Management and Key Square Group. He's far too qualified to be part of this administration. Expect him gone soon.

He's said on Fox Business today that on the basis of whatever agreements have been made in Alaska the US now considers the public and private holdings of its European allies + Japan to be part of an American sovereign wealth fund that can be expropriated whenever some cash is needed. Either he's lying about that or he has guaranteed a position as Trump's number one favourite after Lighthizer.

[deleted]

Re: US national debt reaches a record $37T, the Treasury Department reports

#30

Post by bithive123 »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #19

How do you guys see this ending? I don't see this ending well but I can't imagine what happens. Seems unsustainable but nobody wants to deal with it.

On a long enough timeline we're all dead. In the near term, expect a lot of stupid decisions and huffing and puffing based on an ideological framing of what the national debt is.

I am not an economist or finance guy, but I have noticed a lot of debt hysteria from people who don't seem to understand basic accounting. That is, one party's asset is another party's liability. You cannot have buying without selling, and so on. Your mortgage is a liability for you, but an asset for your bank. Your checking account is an asset for you, but a liability for your bank.

I'm not saying the debt can grow infinitely, but clearly if some of that debt is held as assets by the non-government (most of the world including you and me) then paying off that debt means a wealth transfer from the non-government back to the government.

This isn't necessarily in my interests. If the government has to claw those dollars back from somewhere, I'd rather them start with the richest people. But that doesn't happen for obvious reasons.

Post reply on HN