Reasons to Start a Startup In Canada • Hacker News Board

Re: Reasons to Start a Startup In Canada

#61

Post by debugging » Fri, Sep 07, 2012, 2:09 PM UTC

pcc wrote: post #55

wrath wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree the SR&ED is a huge plus for canadian companies. I've co-founded or been part of many successful startups in Canada and they were in part successful because of the SR&ED program. As long as you design and/or develop algorithms and software/hardware that improve canadian R&D you qualify for the service. $100k spent on the first year will give ~ $60K the next year, which you re-invest in R&D, and that g…

Its also worth noting that SR&ED (specifically the ED part which is typically applicable to startups), only cares that you are seeking, systematically and in the face of technical uncertainty, for technical advancement within your organization. They don't care whether the outcome of this search is successful or not. This means you have the incentive to risk the funds on such an endeavour, as you can get the credit de…

@pcc are there any limitations on how many employees you have? Can single founders apply?

Re: Reasons to Start a Startup In Canada

#62

Post by debugging » Fri, Sep 07, 2012, 2:11 PM UTC

parasubvert wrote: post #29

potatolicious wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conceptually true, in reality not so much. The additional expense of living in SF/NYC does not at all cancel out the additional pay. I've done this calculation many times - no matter which way you slice it, you earn substantially more in real terms in the US. Just doing some quick napkin math now - to maintain my existing NYC lifestyle in Toronto (and my current savings rate) I'd need to be in the $100-110K range. Wh…

It's not that uncommon to pull $100k+ if you're solid with co-op background. 5 years out of undergrad I was in the $145k base range (more with bonus). The real trick in Canada (especially smaller markets like Calgary) is to be an independent contractor... talented guys pull in $95-110 per hour (minus 10-15% if you need a broker), $150-175 per hour or more if you're in a specialty with big demand. HR departments here…

I agree, contract work is where you can make more money.

"HR departments here lag the USA and can't accept what techs are worth." You are referring to full-time work right?

Re: Reasons to Start a Startup In Canada

#63

Post by debugging » Fri, Sep 07, 2012, 2:20 PM UTC

The problem I face in Canada (Toronto) is that I prefer to stay as a contractor. I looked into a few startups myself, and the pay wasn't that interesting (that and the fact I'd have to commute 2 hours per day).

Re: Reasons to Start a Startup In Canada

#64

Post by debugging » Fri, Sep 07, 2012, 2:22 PM UTC

jmacd wrote: post #47

Who cares. Just build your startup wherever you WANT to be and I guarantee that you will have a better result than trying to do it somewhere you don't want to be. If you want to be in Canada then do it in Canada. If you want to be in NY or SF or Idaho or Mexico then go do it there. Nobody actually cares where you are, people truly love great product.

True, but I believe the point is having an atmosphere (investors, universities, creative thinkers, etc.) that helps build a company.

Re: Reasons to Start a Startup In Canada

#65

Post by bearmf » Fri, Sep 07, 2012, 2:41 PM UTC

potatolicious wrote: post #32

bearmf wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

110k 3 years out of college is very rare in NYC as well. EDIT: It is certainly not unheard of, but only for top graduates. Also, I see you were talking about equivalent 110k salary in Toronto which would be 130-140k in New York. This is a high base salary by any standard.

I'm certainly not a top graduate - I eked out of university with a 72% average. Neither are the other Canadian expats I know who are pulling this kind of cash - all are smart and hard-working, but none were among the top of their classes. $110K 3 years out of college, at least in the current climate, is not at all uncommon in either NYC or SF/SV. It is not universal, but it's not rare either. If you look at the major…

All the companies you are mentioning are very hard to get into for an average guy without connections. Also, it is university and your network that matters, not your place in class.

Re: Reasons to Start a Startup In Canada

#66

Post by EdLanden » Fri, Sep 07, 2012, 3:04 PM UTC

It's funny how the conversation is confined to salary potential and government handouts. There is a bigger issue afoot that taints the Canadian IT scene - that is the utter lack of supporting commercial infrastructure. Years of anti small business provincial and federal governments, a pariah lackluster VC sector who's biggest claim to fame is inspring the cynical tv series Dragon's Den/Shark Tank (this is pathetic coming from Canada where there is no investment sector) and an academic sector that is devastatingly irrelevant. Compare to other countries of comparable size/GDP and Canada comes out smelling like a turd - ya I live here and ya I have three startups under my belt. Hmmm, government welfare or an entrepreneur's paradise. That's a tough one.

Re: Reasons to Start a Startup In Canada

#67

Post by parasubvert » Fri, Sep 07, 2012, 5:56 PM UTC

debugging wrote: post #62

parasubvert wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that uncommon to pull $100k+ if you're solid with co-op background. 5 years out of undergrad I was in the $145k base range (more with bonus). The real trick in Canada (especially smaller markets like Calgary) is to be an independent contractor... talented guys pull in $95-110 per hour (minus 10-15% if you need a broker), $150-175 per hour or more if you're in a specialty with big demand. HR departments here…

I agree, contract work is where you can make more money. "HR departments here lag the USA and can't accept what techs are worth." You are referring to full-time work right?

Yes, full time work. HR departments rarely get involved with contract rates, they'd have a heart attack after their first SAP project.

Re: Reasons to Start a Startup In Canada

#68

Post by pcc » Fri, Sep 07, 2012, 9:10 PM UTC

debugging wrote: post #61

pcc wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its also worth noting that SR&ED (specifically the ED part which is typically applicable to startups), only cares that you are seeking, systematically and in the face of technical uncertainty, for technical advancement within your organization. They don't care whether the outcome of this search is successful or not. This means you have the incentive to risk the funds on such an endeavour, as you can get the credit de…

@pcc are there any limitations on how many employees you have? Can single founders apply?

In principle anyone with eligible work can apply. Its even possible for unincorporated individuals to claim SR&ED on personal tax.

I would recommend though that you go to one of the public info sessions held in your area, since there are various angles to be aware of, that will help you optimize your claim. For example:

- a small Canadian corp typically gets a better rate than a claim on personal tax;

- if you're a "specified employee" (meaning you own 10% or more of the corp) they place certain caps on things like how much of the "proxy amount" you can apply in your claim

- a lot of the claim revolves around how much of your expenses was for eligible work. You typically have to be careful that a founder who is also doing marketing etc, is only claiming for the portion of time spent on the R&D part.

They go into all of this in the public info sessions, and they typically have specialists from various SR&ED areas available to answer pretty much any question.

You can also call them on various info lines, e.g. they offer a "first-time claimant" service where they try to make it easier for people looking at doing a first SR&ED claim, even coming out to visit your business if helpful.

They also offer a "preclaim project review" service where they'll give you a prelim opinion on the eligibility of a project, without you having to file a formal claim. (While this is not guarantee, it can for instance be used while raising funding, to demonstrate to prospective investors that you have a reasonable expectation of getting SR&ED support).

In fact there are a lot of public info sessions coming up in the near future: http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/txcrdt/sred-rsde/smnr-eng.html

Re: Reasons to Start a Startup In Canada

#69

Post by jonny_eh » Mon, Sep 10, 2012, 6:17 PM UTC

serge2k wrote: post #48

jonny_eh wrote: post #5

"You don’t have Google and Facebook offering astronomical starting salaries for engineers right out of school" Except that's a big reason why I left Canada to work in Silicon Valley. It kinda went like this: "So you'll pay me 2-3 times what I could earn here, the weather is perfect, there's no mosquitos, and I can work on stuff people actually use? Where do I sign?"

A guy just left where I'm working to move down to the states. Makes around 2.5 times what he did here and gets extra benefits (apparently extra for living expenses and such). I am considering checking out the states. I can always come back to BC later and earning some extra money would be good considering my loans. Job I have now isn't bad, low stress and 8-4 every day. pay is decent. Problem is that if I stayed here…

Move to Silicon Valley/SF it's awesome out here!

Re: Reasons to Start a Startup In Canada

#70

Post by jensv » Tue, Sep 11, 2012, 6:38 AM UTC

potatolicious wrote: post #60

jensv wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how exactly would you recommend going about finding a programming job in the U.S? Are there any resources you found particularly useful given that I have no connections, little knowledge of the job market, and respectable (but no niche or outstanding side projects, mediocore GPA, etc.) skills that would render me invisible in the eyes of "top" employers like Google? I've heard so much about how the grass is greene…

Recruiters may be your best way to get your foot in the door. Once you're here the jobs seems to find themselves - tech events, meetups, and other events will quickly build a network, and at least for now, you'd never want for a job. First things first: get a LinkedIn profile if you don't have one already. Spruce it up, keyword it straight to hell - name drop pretty much every technology, field, and subfield you have…

I appreciate the offer and will take you up on it later once I have done my due diligence.

In case you are curious the situation here in Calgary (not a tech hub by any definition) is entirely different. The recruiters use similar tactics but the pool of working professionals is rather limited so you quickly develop a reputation. Sometimes you get the feeling that the it's the same players shuffling around a dozen employers.

The economics however are completely different because imo job opportunities are very limited. The base salaries you are describing for a recent grad (or American mid-senior level developer) are on par with middle management with approximately 15 years of experience.... So from a financial perspective it's really a no brainer many of peers who can leave are long gone. It's rather depressing but I almost feel like the Canadian education system is a farm team for American software companies.