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So You Bought a Fancy Vintage Car. Now Who's Going to Restore It?

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Re: So You Bought a Fancy Vintage Car. Now Who's Going to Restore It?

#41
I have a 1963 Mini, which for a while I used as a daily driver. It's a very fun car for city driving, though it lacks some modern niceties. But every couple of months I'd have to spend a fortune to get various parts of it fixed with refurbished parts. Eventually I got a new cheap hatchback which I drive instead. Now the mini sits there with flat tires and cobwebs under a rain cover, and it looks quite sad.

I've thought that if I ever took a sabbatical, maybe I could try retrofit it with an electric system, but I just know it's going to take me down another money hole.

Classic cars are an expensive interest.

Re: So You Bought a Fancy Vintage Car. Now Who's Going to Restore It?

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take a ride in an early 70s "land yacht" and you'll get an idea what "comfy" really means. All newer cars regardless of actual type somehow seem to be converging on a "sporty" feel, which is very different.

Land yachts still exist. We just call them by "SUV" today.

Can an SUV be a "yacht" if it doesn't have fender skirts ?

Re: So You Bought a Fancy Vintage Car. Now Who's Going to Restore It?

#43
post #25
post #13

Sorry to burst bubbles, but I've been in a few: The new cars really do drive better. Smoother shifts, better engines, effective climate control, better seats, just more comfy, more driveable, more responsive, even feel better. This isn't like vintage pens I'm afraid, where old meant high quality materials. Old cars are mostly just crappy (barring a very small set of outliers). I think it boils down to the fact that c…

In general, I agree. However, many older cars were small, light, simple, and raw - characteristics that have largely disappeared from modern cars. Automatic transmissions from the mid-90s and earlier generally sucked, though good old manual transmissions are not much different from good modern ones. As an example, I owned a W126 S class from the late 80s, and it was fun in its unique way and no modern cars replicate…

> However, many older cars were small, light, simple, and raw - characteristics that have largely disappeared from modern cars.

I feel parent's point still stands.

Sure, you won't be able to go to a random Ford dealership and go home with a small light and simple car, but there are plenty of modern car accessible through a modicum of effort. Even buying something new abroad and bring it back home will probably be less hassle than restoring an old car.

I wonder if buying a kit car would still be simpler, for still better results.

Re: So You Bought a Fancy Vintage Car. Now Who's Going to Restore It?

#44
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you documented the rebuild process? It would be cool to see if you have a write up when it’s done. You might post it here. I think restoration and repair projects by HN users are great to see here when we get them.

People have launched youtube careers filming and posting stuff like this.

Project Binky is well worth a watch if you enjoy car restoration, upgrades/rebuilding, and generally extreme make-overs on classic cars.

Re: So You Bought a Fancy Vintage Car. Now Who's Going to Restore It?

#45
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general, I agree. However, many older cars were small, light, simple, and raw - characteristics that have largely disappeared from modern cars. Automatic transmissions from the mid-90s and earlier generally sucked, though good old manual transmissions are not much different from good modern ones. As an example, I owned a W126 S class from the late 80s, and it was fun in its unique way and no modern cars replicate…

> However, many older cars were small, light, simple, and raw - characteristics that have largely disappeared from modern cars. I feel parent's point still stands. Sure, you won't be able to go to a random Ford dealership and go home with a small light and simple car, but there are plenty of modern car accessible through a modicum of effort. Even buying something new abroad and bring it back home will probably be les…

Aside from the Mazda MX-5 (which isn’t the most practical car), almost all small, simple, and light cars made today are econoboxes. They’re not designed to have the rich control feel, balanced and satisfying handling near the limits, responsiveness, material quality, suspension sophistication, etc. compared to say German luxury compact cars of the 1980s (BMW E30 or M-B W201). Even cars like 90s Hondas, while front wheel drive and built to a much lower price point, had rich control feel, liveliness, and agility that modern cars don’t give.

Modern luxury cars from essentially all brands around the world have become huge, heavy, numb, and over-complicated. They’re much faster and quieter than the say the old Benzes and BMWs of the 80s, but they don’t have the fun raw feel, small size, light weight, tossability, and simplicity of the old cars.

A BMW E30 or M-B W201 have a weight somewhere between a Mazda MX-5 and Subaru BRZ, but are far more practical than either for passengers and cargo despite being around the same width and only slightly longer.

The only modern cars with similar size and weight are some European market compact cars and econoboxes like the Mitsubishi Mirage, Nissan Micra, and Chevy Spark (which are also disappearing from North America). For steering feel, handling, general raw and connected driving feel, powertrain responsiveness, and interior quality, these modern economy cars can’t compete. Some of the European market specific B-segment cars come closest to those older compact luxury cars, but they still don’t match them for the qualities I described.

Kit cars generally suck from a practical perspective compared to well engineered 80s/90s cars and aren’t a very practical option either.

Re: So You Bought a Fancy Vintage Car. Now Who's Going to Restore It?

#46
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, many older cars were small, light, simple, and raw - characteristics that have largely disappeared from modern cars. I feel parent's point still stands. Sure, you won't be able to go to a random Ford dealership and go home with a small light and simple car, but there are plenty of modern car accessible through a modicum of effort. Even buying something new abroad and bring it back home will probably be les…

Aside from the Mazda MX-5 (which isn’t the most practical car), almost all small, simple, and light cars made today are econoboxes. They’re not designed to have the rich control feel, balanced and satisfying handling near the limits, responsiveness, material quality, suspension sophistication, etc. compared to say German luxury compact cars of the 1980s (BMW E30 or M-B W201). Even cars like 90s Hondas, while front wh…

> They’re not designed to have the rich control feel, balanced and satisfying handling near the limits, responsiveness, material quality, suspension sophistication, etc.

Sounds to me like you're looking for a Lotus or a 911 at budget prices. I agree with you that's pretty far from the "simple, simple, light" vehicle, and it's fully in the hobby realm.

If you're that deep into cars, I'd say more power to you, and spending ungodly amount of money time and effort on vintage cars is probably a pleasure as well.

Re: So You Bought a Fancy Vintage Car. Now Who's Going to Restore It?

#47
post #25
post #13

Sorry to burst bubbles, but I've been in a few: The new cars really do drive better. Smoother shifts, better engines, effective climate control, better seats, just more comfy, more driveable, more responsive, even feel better. This isn't like vintage pens I'm afraid, where old meant high quality materials. Old cars are mostly just crappy (barring a very small set of outliers). I think it boils down to the fact that c…

In general, I agree. However, many older cars were small, light, simple, and raw - characteristics that have largely disappeared from modern cars. Automatic transmissions from the mid-90s and earlier generally sucked, though good old manual transmissions are not much different from good modern ones. As an example, I owned a W126 S class from the late 80s, and it was fun in its unique way and no modern cars replicate…

My daily is a W126 with the OM603. It's getting harder every day to find parts (when I need them, which is infrequent) but it's worth the hassle because like you say there is nothing modern that has the same combination of feel and ride quality. Or visibility! I can parallel park this car (long wheelbase too) in tiny spots easier than a modern compact because you can actually see.

I've got a W140 with the M120 and a W123 with the OM616 and a 4-speed too, and while they have their charms (especially the W123) nothing tops the W126. It truly was not just the finest production sedan Mercedes made, but ever made by anyone. (Other contenders being the W100, the W140, and the Lexus LS.)

Re: So You Bought a Fancy Vintage Car. Now Who's Going to Restore It?

#48
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside from the Mazda MX-5 (which isn’t the most practical car), almost all small, simple, and light cars made today are econoboxes. They’re not designed to have the rich control feel, balanced and satisfying handling near the limits, responsiveness, material quality, suspension sophistication, etc. compared to say German luxury compact cars of the 1980s (BMW E30 or M-B W201). Even cars like 90s Hondas, while front wh…

> They’re not designed to have the rich control feel, balanced and satisfying handling near the limits, responsiveness, material quality, suspension sophistication, etc. Sounds to me like you're looking for a Lotus or a 911 at budget prices. I agree with you that's pretty far from the "simple, simple, light" vehicle, and it's fully in the hobby realm. If you're that deep into cars, I'd say more power to you, and spen…

That’s the thing - old German compact luxury sedans from the 80s had the control feel, balance, and light weight you get from a Porsche, while also being practical family cars. There’s nothing like that made today. They were also decently safe and comfortable and reliable and generally just good.

Also the bigger ones like the W126, while not as light and agile as a Porsche or Lotus, still had similar control feel, very comfortable and spacious interiors, and could glide over the worst most broken and potholed roads better than any modern car I’ve driven. They’re also much simpler than any modern luxury cars, much less to break, and they just keep going and going as long as you take basic care. From personal experience, a much younger used W220 or W221 S class needs far more maintenance and repair than an old W126.

The more powerful but still reliable engines and nicer transmissions of the late W140 or W220 would be nice to have in a W126 though. My problem with the newer S classes is the complexity and fragility of the rest of the car.

Of course, these are 40 year old cars and need more care and maintenance than a new car, but they’re not too bad either as long as you get a good example of the car. They’re pretty reliable once sorted, and can last a very long time and very high mileage as long as they’re at least somewhat cared for.

Re: So You Bought a Fancy Vintage Car. Now Who's Going to Restore It?

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take a ride in an early 70s "land yacht" and you'll get an idea what "comfy" really means. All newer cars regardless of actual type somehow seem to be converging on a "sporty" feel, which is very different.

Land yachts still exist. We just call them by "SUV" today.

SUVs have a very different roadfeel, not to mention they've also gone in the "sporty" direction. Perhaps an old Suburban would be close.

Re: So You Bought a Fancy Vintage Car. Now Who's Going to Restore It?

#50

I've just about got my 1981 Mini I bought in highschool for $600 NZD back in one piece. Wasn't going to touch the engine originally but thought why not, so almost 20 years later with almost everything aside from the shell refurbed or replaced here we are. It's been expensive and slow and I'd have been better off now having put the money into a house deposit instead. But now I know a fair amount about rebuilding a 45…

Have you documented the rebuild process? It would be cool to see if you have a write up when it’s done. You might post it here. I think restoration and repair projects by HN users are great to see here when we get them.

Thanks for the encouraging words! I've got a large folder of photos and videos I've been meaning to do something with, this could be the catalyst that needed.
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