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Why are there so many rationalist cults?

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Re: Why are there so many rationalist cults?

#31

Post by davorak »

mlinhares wrote: post #4

> One is Black Lotus, a Burning Man camp led by alleged rapist Brent Dill, which developed a metaphysical system based on the tabletop roleplaying game Mage the Ascension. What the actual f. This is such an insane thing to read and understand what it means that i might need to go and sit in silence for the rest of the day. How did we get to this place with people going completely nuts like this?

Makes me think of that saying that great artists steal, so repurposed for cult founders: "Good cult founders copy, great cult founders steal"

I do not think this cult dogma is any more out there than other cult dogma I have heard, but the above quote makes me think it is easier to found cults in modern day in someways since you can steal other complex world building from numerous sources rather building yourself and keeping everything straight.

Re: Why are there so many rationalist cults?

#32

Post by watwut »

incomingpain wrote: post #14

We live in an irrational time. It's unclear if it was simply under reported in history or social changes in the last ~50-75 years have had breaking consequences. People are trying to make sense of this. For examples. The Canadian government heavily subsidizes junk food, then spends heavily on healthcare because of the resulting illnesses. It restrict and limits healthy food through supply management and promotes a “f…

Scientology is here since 1953 and it has similarly bonkers set of believes. And is huge.

Your rant about government or not being allowed to hike in some places in Canada is unrelated to the issue.

Re: Why are there so many rationalist cults?

#33

Post by TrackerFF »

mlinhares wrote: post #4

> One is Black Lotus, a Burning Man camp led by alleged rapist Brent Dill, which developed a metaphysical system based on the tabletop roleplaying game Mage the Ascension. What the actual f. This is such an insane thing to read and understand what it means that i might need to go and sit in silence for the rest of the day. How did we get to this place with people going completely nuts like this?

Cult leaders tend to be narcissists.

Narcissists tend to believe that they are always right, no mater what the topic is, or how knowledgeable they are. This makes them speak with confidence and conviction.

Some people are very drawn to confident people.

If the cult leader has other mental health issues, it can/will seep into their rhetoric. Combine that with unwavering support from loyal followers that will take everything they say as gospel...

That's about it.

Re: Why are there so many rationalist cults?

#34

Post by piva00 »

mlinhares wrote: post #4

> One is Black Lotus, a Burning Man camp led by alleged rapist Brent Dill, which developed a metaphysical system based on the tabletop roleplaying game Mage the Ascension. What the actual f. This is such an insane thing to read and understand what it means that i might need to go and sit in silence for the rest of the day. How did we get to this place with people going completely nuts like this?

I've met a fair share of people in the burner community, the vast majority I met are lovely folks who really enjoy the process of bringing some weird big idea into reality, working hard on the builds, learning stuff, and having a good time with others for months to showcase their creations at some event.

On the other hand, there's a whole other side of a few nutjobs who really behave like cult leaders, they believe their own bullshit and over time manage to find in this community a lot of "followers", since one of the foundational aspects is radical acceptance it becomes very easy to be nutty and not questioned (unless you do something egregious).

Re: Why are there so many rationalist cults?

#35

Post by iwontberude »

api wrote: post #2

Why are there so many cults? People want to feel like they belong to something, and in a world in the midst of a loneliness and isolation epidemic the market conditions are ideal for cults.

Your profile says that you want to keep your identity small, but you have like over 30 thousand comments spelling out exactly who you are and how you think. Why not shard accounts? Anyways. Just a random thought.

Re: Why are there so many rationalist cults?

#36

Post by Ifkaluva »

cjs_ac wrote: post #19

Rationalism is the belief that reason is the primary path to knowledge, as opposed to, say, the observation that is championed by empiricism. It's a belief system that prioritises imposing its tenets on reality rather than asking reality what reality's tenets are. From the outset, it's inherently cult-like.

That is the definition of “rationalism” as proposed by philosophers like Descartes and Kant, but I don’t think that is an accurate representation of the type of “rationalism” this article describes.

This article describes “rationalism” as described in LessWrong and the sequences by Eliezer Yudkowsky. A good amount of it based on empirical findings from psychology behavior science. It’s called “rationalism” because it seeks to correct common reasoning heuristics that are purported to lead to incorrect reasoning, not in contrast to empiricism.

Re: Why are there so many rationalist cults?

#38

Post by quantummagic »

j_m_b wrote: post #26

> One way that thinking for yourself goes wrong is that you realize your society is wrong about something, don’t realize that you can’t outperform it, and wind up even wronger. many such cases

It's almost the defining characteristic of our time.

Re: Why are there so many rationalist cults?

#39

Post by WJW »

mlinhares wrote: post #16
TimorousBestie wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mage: The Ascension is basically a delusions of grandeur simulator, so I can see how an already unstable personality might get attached to it and become more unstable.

I don't know, i'd understand something like Wraith (which I did see people developing issues, the shadow mechanic is such a terrible thing) but Mage is so, like, straightforward? Use your mind to control reality, reality fights back with paradox, its cool for a teenager but you read a bit more fantasy and you'll definitely find cooler stuff. But i guess for you to join a cult your mind must stay a teen mind forever.

I didn't originally write this, but can't find the original place I read it anymore. I think it makes a lot of sense to repost it here:

All of the World Of Darkness and Chronicles Of Darkness games are basically about coming of age/puberty. Like X-Men but for Goth-Nerds instead of Geek-Nerds.

In Vampire, your body is going through weird changes and you are starting to develop, physically and/or mentally, while realising that the world is run by a bunch of old, evil fools who still expect you to toe the line and stay in your place, but you are starting to wonder if the world wouldn't be better if your generation overthrew them and took over running the world, doing it the right way. And there are all these bad elements trying to convince you that you should do just that, but for the sake of mindless violence and raucous partying. Teenager - the rpg.

In Werewolf, your body is going through weird changes and you are starting to develop, physically and mentally, while realising that you are not a part of the "normal" crowd that the rest of Humanity belongs to. You are different and they just can't handle that whenever it gets revealed. Luckily, there are small communities of people like you out there who take you in and show you how use the power of your "true" self. Of course, even among this community, there are different types of other. LGBT Teenager - the RPG

In Mage, you have begun to take an interest in the real world, and you think you know what the world is really like. The people all around you are just sleep-walking through life, because they don't really get it. This understanding sets you against the people who run the world: the governments and the corporations, trying to stop these sleeper from waking up to the truth and rejecting their comforting lies. You have found some other people who saw through them, and you think they've got a lot of things wrong, but at least they're awake to the lies! Rebellious Teenager - the RPG

Re: Why are there so many rationalist cults?

#40

Post by mlinhares »

wavefunction wrote: post #28
mlinhares wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, i'd understand something like Wraith (which I did see people developing issues, the shadow mechanic is such a terrible thing) but Mage is so, like, straightforward? Use your mind to control reality, reality fights back with paradox, its cool for a teenager but you read a bit more fantasy and you'll definitely find cooler stuff. But i guess for you to join a cult your mind must stay a teen mind forever.

How many adults actually abandon juvenalia as they age? Not the majority in my observation, and it's not always a bad thing when it's only applied to subjects like pop culture. Applied juvenalia in response to serious subjects is a more serious issue.

There has to be a cult of people that believe they’re vampires, respecting the masquerade and serving some antedeluvian somewhere, vampire was much more mainstream than mage.
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