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How to teach your kids to play poker: Start with one card

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Re: How to teach your kids to play poker: Start with one card

#181
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, in both Denmark and the UK, my experience has been that children are indeed allowed it on occasion, often celebrations like Christmas where they will have something like bucks fizz or a little cider or something alongside the adults.

Right, and this leads to greater consumption in life. This has been studied. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03064...

France, Italy and Spain are all places I have routinely seen parents offer their children a small glass with dinner, generally from age 12 onward.

https://archive.nytimes.com/well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/04/2...

> greater consumption in life

with equivalent or lower alcoholism or alcohol dependency disorders - https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/alcoholis...

Re: How to teach your kids to play poker: Start with one card

#182

I'm surprised at the general tone of response here towards the subject of poker overall (I didn't read the article yet so perhaps something more is in the context, but all the same); I understand there are many in the poker world even regarding the most successful of whom are regarded as living a degenerate lifestyle, but being that I was previously in that world myself and was not a degenerate type; I never gambled…

> NL Holdem poker is absolutely a game of skill with an element of variance aka luck/lack-there-of. I’ve played a lot of Holdem, and I’m not sure I agree. A lot of what passes for skill is just an innate understanding of the odds. John Scarne writes about gambling that a good bet isn’t one you are likely to win, but one where the payout is enough to be worth the risk. The best players know the odds of pulling a strai…

I think this is true and why programs like like Pluribus, Libratus and DeepStack have outperformed professionals in both heads-up and multiplayer no-limit Texas Hold'em. It's not reading social cues like traditional players, but just relying on probability. Even when giving perfect knowledge of the computer strategy to humans, they're still unable to exploit.

Humans are improving their game by using solvers and introducing randomness into their decisions. For instance, an optimal strategy given a hand might be "fold 80% of the time". One way to do that in live play is look at the second hand of a watch and fold unless it seconds (in this case) are about 48 (80% prob).

Re: How to teach your kids to play poker: Start with one card

#183
I’ve taught all five of my kids how to play poker, and if they ever sit down at a cash game consider their stack gone and play the cards (remove the dopamine chaos). Learn the math, betting strategies, and look for villain patterns.

These all directly relate to real life.

I believe in it so much that I have a tournament training app startup: https://mach9poker.com/.

There’s a company in Chicago that teaches women poker in relation to business: https://pokerpower.com/.

Bankroll management is a critical skill regardless of the use case.

Re: How to teach your kids to play poker: Start with one card

#184
Great stuff. Growing up, I played both chess an poker seriously. Chess mostly in person: in a club, at tournaments and league matches. Poker mostly online, for real money (age verification wasn't taken very seriously at the time). Though I've spent more time on chess in total, poker has had a bigger impact on my outlook on life. It constantly confronts you with your own cognitive biases and teaches you how to deal with uncertainty and variance, two very important things people by default kinda suck at.

Re: How to teach your kids to play poker: Start with one card

#185
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, and this leads to greater consumption in life. This has been studied. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03064...

France, Italy and Spain are all places I have routinely seen parents offer their children a small glass with dinner, generally from age 12 onward. https://archive.nytimes.com/well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/04/2... > greater consumption in life with equivalent or lower alcoholism or alcohol dependency disorders - https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/alcoholis...

> with equivalent or lower alcoholism or alcohol dependency disorders

Something something about correlation and causation. I will weigh studies that try to eliminate confounders above population data rife with them.

Re: How to teach your kids to play poker: Start with one card

#186

I have always been mystified by the popularity of poker. To me, it is an unpleasant game. First - the fact that it's played for real money. If I win, I feel like a common swindler stealing money that someone could use to pay their bills or buy something nice for themselves. If I lose, I feel like a swindler's victim. And if the people around the table happen to be my friends - why would I ever wish to victimize them,…

I totally agree with your first point.

Money cheapens social interactions. It reduces them to competitive advantage, exploiter or exploited. I do not want to interact with anyone that way, ever. Certainly not friends.

But I acknowledge that this is oversimplified. It is possible for mature people to find an appropriate level of heightened excitement/tension due to the elevated consequences of money. Most people have the self-control to handle/compartmentalize it, or to avoid levels where the consequences become meaningful to them (this gets harder if alcohol is involved, which it seems to always be).

This appropriate level will vary by group, but there seems to be a persistent conflict between "excitingly meaningful" and "respectfully modest" amounts of money. And of course everyone's monetary circumstances are different. And there's a social pressure to participate which may exceed your circumstances. And there's an issue where the strong (experienced) players have no choice but to prey upon the weak (new or less smart) players. These issues are the inescapable ugliness that I just can't get over.

So I will never play any game for money, and I sometimes wonder whether people who enjoy such predatory thinking patterns are deserving of a standard level of trust.

I know it's not that simple, but sometimes it is.

The other arguments, about teaching strategy vs tactics, human psychology (under stress), working with imperfect information, calculated risks, etc, are all valid and important too. And I believe that playing for money elevates these lessons. Some people (for pleasure or necessity) choose to be hard-nosed in life. My enduring privilege is that I do not need to be, and I am very grateful for that.

Re: How to teach your kids to play poker: Start with one card

#187
post #135

A lot of starcraft players transitioned to Poker. Because both games require decision making in a system with incomplete information(like real life). That's why parents should teach their kids how to play poker. Otherwise they risk going by in life without critical cognitive skills.

Yeah, the only way to learn those skills is to engage in a degenerate gambling pastime, that is a gateway to many other degenerate gambling pastimes. This entire thread is exactly like arguing with weed smokers on Reddit/r/trees.

Is "degenerate" the word that comes to your mind when reading about the Levine family's game night?

Re: How to teach your kids to play poker: Start with one card

#188
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France, Italy and Spain are all places I have routinely seen parents offer their children a small glass with dinner, generally from age 12 onward. https://archive.nytimes.com/well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/04/2... > greater consumption in life with equivalent or lower alcoholism or alcohol dependency disorders - https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/alcoholis...

> with equivalent or lower alcoholism or alcohol dependency disorders Something something about correlation and causation. I will weigh studies that try to eliminate confounders above population data rife with them.

I didn't use a phrase like "this leads to" and cite a logistic regression.

Re: How to teach your kids to play poker: Start with one card

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First - the fact that it's played for real money. Don't play for real money then. I played a lot of poker with friends, but never for money - everybody gets the same amount of chips at the start and the winner is the last man standing (i.e. the winner of the random all in once most players are out, usually)

In my experience poker completely falls apart when it's not for real money. It just doesn't seem like a very good game in the sense that people don't try to win unless there's some external benefit to winning. It sucks to play with people who don't care.

I run home games with 5c/10c blinds (5$ buy in). Keeps element of real money, keeps things very casual, winning players usually leaves with ~20$. Have food etc, costs losing players less than it'd cost to go out for a sandwich

Re: How to teach your kids to play poker: Start with one card

#190
This was nice! I tried with my five year old using nuts and bolts as chips. They got it right away and we quickly upgraded to two cards. The three year old also wanted to join but they had no idea what they were doing. (Cargo culting the motions with no correlation to hand strength.)

Come to think of it, we also did not ante but used blinds instead. That way I could put him in the small blind and open up by asking "do you think your card is higher than mine? if so you need to call the current bet of 2."

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