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How to teach your kids to play poker: Start with one card

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Re: How to teach your kids to play poker: Start with one card

#111

Post by mettamage »

sans_souse wrote: post #97

I'm surprised at the general tone of response here towards the subject of poker overall (I didn't read the article yet so perhaps something more is in the context, but all the same); I understand there are many in the poker world even regarding the most successful of whom are regarded as living a degenerate lifestyle, but being that I was previously in that world myself and was not a degenerate type; I never gambled…

Hey I've started playing poker occasionally again, wanna have a chat about poker? My email is in my profile.

I used to be a winning player at small stakes about 20 years ago, so nothing major but enough for me to show that it's a game of skill.

But yea, for anyone interested why poker is a game of skill, it's due to the law of large numbers. You can easily see the law kick into effect when you simulate a dice roll and you win from 1 to 4 and the other wins 5 to 6 and you both get $1 if you win. I recently had to explain this concept so I happen to have the JS still lying around in my Chrome console.

  const rolls = 10_000;
  let a = 0;
  let b = 0;
  
  for (let i = 0; i

Re: How to teach your kids to play poker: Start with one card

#112

Post by Talanes »

jayknight wrote: post #32
blitztime wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d say bluffing in poker isn’t really lying. I mean you certainly can look at it that way, but another way to look at it is “I have good hands here more often than you do so here strategically you have to fold when I bet”

The difference between a lie and a surprise is that soon everyone will know what the surprise was. A lie has the intention of concealing the truth forever.

We tell plenty of lies that aren't intended to hold up forever — whether it's a lie to a stranger that you hope to be away from before the lie becomes apparent, or a lie to a acquaintance that you hope is small enough that the social friction of confronting you over it would be worse than the lie.

Re: How to teach your kids to play poker: Start with one card

#113

Post by internet_points »

sans_souse wrote: post #97

I'm surprised at the general tone of response here towards the subject of poker overall (I didn't read the article yet so perhaps something more is in the context, but all the same); I understand there are many in the poker world even regarding the most successful of whom are regarded as living a degenerate lifestyle, but being that I was previously in that world myself and was not a degenerate type; I never gambled…

> I'm surprised at the general tone of response here towards the subject of poker overall [...] regarded as living a degenerate lifestyle

Maybe the people who are negative have read to the end of the article where we are let into the not-so-hidden agenda of the parent: Teach the kids to hustle their way through college so they can become a market speculator.

Re: How to teach your kids to play poker: Start with one card

#114

Post by pyrale »

p1necone wrote: post #46
tetromino_ wrote: post #42

I have always been mystified by the popularity of poker. To me, it is an unpleasant game. First - the fact that it's played for real money. If I win, I feel like a common swindler stealing money that someone could use to pay their bills or buy something nice for themselves. If I lose, I feel like a swindler's victim. And if the people around the table happen to be my friends - why would I ever wish to victimize them,…

If you ignore the externalities of winning/losing money the thing that the betting brings to poker that is very hard to replace is the impact it has on the players decision making. People playing poker with "funny money" play the game fundamentally differently to the extent it's almost a different game (arguably worse, certainly less predictable) entirely. If you take the money out of it you have to replace it with s…

> If you take the money out of it you have to replace it with something that matters to the players outside of the game itself for it to work.

This claim is genuinely alien to me. I've seen people play lots of games very competitively without tying money in it. No one would seriously claim that chess hustler games are the only serious chess games, yet that claim looks oddly similar to the one made in poker. Why would poker be an exception? Is the game not interesting enough to play without it? Does the game use money to lure in a population of players that would otherwise not play? If so, is i likely that this extra population is skilled enough at the game to compete fairly?

Re: How to teach your kids to play poker: Start with one card

#115

Post by Talanes »

bawolff wrote: post #93
Talanes wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your definition seems like it would include the entire field of cryptography as lies, would it not?

I don't think cryptography usually results in an increased probability of your adversary making incorrect inferences relative to the base case of the adversary having no information. So no, i wouldn't say so. Maybe you can argue steganography is lying. Regardless, i also find the idea that lying is morally wrong reductive. Morality depends on context. There are plenty of cases where being misleading is morally ok in…

Why would the base state be "No cryptography, no communication, no information" and not "No cryptography, communication, information?"

If we assume a default state of avoiding engagement, the average poker player is giving away more information that could lead to correct inferences by playing than bad information by bluffing. Exactly at which point does the lie happen?

Re: How to teach your kids to play poker: Start with one card

#116

Post by [deleted] »

internet_points wrote: post #113
sans_souse wrote: post #97

I'm surprised at the general tone of response here towards the subject of poker overall (I didn't read the article yet so perhaps something more is in the context, but all the same); I understand there are many in the poker world even regarding the most successful of whom are regarded as living a degenerate lifestyle, but being that I was previously in that world myself and was not a degenerate type; I never gambled…

> I'm surprised at the general tone of response here towards the subject of poker overall [...] regarded as living a degenerate lifestyle Maybe the people who are negative have read to the end of the article where we are let into the not-so-hidden agenda of the parent: Teach the kids to hustle their way through college so they can become a market speculator.

[deleted]

Re: How to teach your kids to play poker: Start with one card

#117

Post by blitzar »

sans_souse wrote: post #97

I'm surprised at the general tone of response here towards the subject of poker overall (I didn't read the article yet so perhaps something more is in the context, but all the same); I understand there are many in the poker world even regarding the most successful of whom are regarded as living a degenerate lifestyle, but being that I was previously in that world myself and was not a degenerate type; I never gambled…

The teachings from the games of gambling, probability etc is a valuable life skill that far too few people have.

I reccomend:

Thinking in Bets: Making Smarter Decisions When You Don't Have All the Facts Hardcover – 6 Feb. 2018 by Annie Duke

Or listen to any of the podcasts she did when promoting the book - Peter Attia or Masters of Business are the two I presonally consumed at that time.

Re: How to teach your kids to play poker: Start with one card

#118

Post by renox »

kqr wrote: post #74
tzs wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about other games that people play for real money where the money for the winners comes from the losers? For example in amateur chess tournaments it is common for the prize money to come out of the entry fees. Fairly typical might be a $15 dollar entry fee in advance or $20 at the door, and a prize fund of $350 ($200 first, $100 second, $50 third) based on 30 entries. It will be lower if they get fewer entries,…

Surely the variance of amateur chess is far lower than that of poker.

Depends on which level of 'amateur chess', for kids there are real beginners who barely know the rules and ~1600-elo players in the same competition..

Re: How to teach your kids to play poker: Start with one card

#119

Post by cillian64 »

internet_points wrote: post #113
sans_souse wrote: post #97

I'm surprised at the general tone of response here towards the subject of poker overall (I didn't read the article yet so perhaps something more is in the context, but all the same); I understand there are many in the poker world even regarding the most successful of whom are regarded as living a degenerate lifestyle, but being that I was previously in that world myself and was not a degenerate type; I never gambled…

> I'm surprised at the general tone of response here towards the subject of poker overall [...] regarded as living a degenerate lifestyle Maybe the people who are negative have read to the end of the article where we are let into the not-so-hidden agenda of the parent: Teach the kids to hustle their way through college so they can become a market speculator.

Matt Levine is “known for his humorous, witty, deadpan writing style” - I’m pretty sure that’s a joke.

Re: How to teach your kids to play poker: Start with one card

#120

Post by tamat »

PaulRobinson wrote: post #108
d--b wrote: post #90

Not sure I want my 4-year-old to know how to play poker though.

Why? Poker is a great way to learn a lot of life lessons about human psychology, money management, strategy vs tactics, game theory, and so much more. There is this weird protestant puritanism around so many aspects of life that confuse me. Every child is going to become an adult, but there is this attitude that they must be shielded from all adult knowledge until they're 21 as if that's helpful. Your kid can - throu…

It´s about normalizing something we think it could lead to problems.

I dont want to romanticize the game in his mind, so when he grows up people ask him to play poker and he sees it as "that nice game we played at home!".

It is a game with very strong connections with gambling. There are thousands of other games without that association which are as rewarding as poker.

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