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Claude is the drug, Cursor is the dealer

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Re: Claude is the drug, Cursor is the dealer

#61
post #47

Imagine you're studying, for example math, and you have to learn calculus, and you're living in a dormitory with a colleague, who's great at integration calculus, and every time you get another integration function puzzle to solve, this guy (or gal) pops up and says "it's 2*e^2/x+C dx", "it's e^2+C dx", "it's sin(x)/cos(x)+C dx" after 5 milliseconds, even before you fully comprehend the function... I have a question…

They can already do this just by downloading Mathematica.

Solving integrals is the original selling point of Mathematica: https://www.wolfram.com/mathematica/scrapbook/1988/03/04/198...

And yes, I memorized a bunch of integrals for my calculus class and then promptly forgot them all after the final exam. It's not worth it to remember how to do integrals other than simple cases like polynomials or sin/cos on their own.

Re: Claude is the drug, Cursor is the dealer

#62

Everyone is fighting for their view of the world right now and for those of us who do not have any investment in the success of one of the models, it feels like pure speculation at this point. I don't think there's a human on this planet who can even predict the state of the industry in 3 years. In my entire time in the industry, I have always felt like I had a good line of sight three years away. Even when the iphon…

We can make some educated guesses and extrapolate some trends. But you are right that most of the people currently claiming to know what's going to happen in 3 years were fast asleep when chat gpt launched, which is almost 3 years ago. And I include myself in that group. Most in the industry did not see that coming. Not even a little bit.

At this point we have half the industry being overly pessimistic and the other half being unreasonably optimistic. The median truth would be in the middle. But I don't think that's a very sound position to take either.

The reason is that I think we're actually dealing with a severe imagination deficit in society. That always happens around big technological changes. And this definitely looks and feels like such a thing. Ten years from now it might all seem obvious in retrospect. But right now we have the optimist camp predicting what boils down to the automotive equivalent of "faster horses" (AGI, I robot, self driving cars, and all the rest). It's going to be this wonderful utopia where no-one works and everything runs by itself. I'm not a big believer in that and I don't think that's how economies work.

And we have a bunch of pessimists predicting that it's all going to end in tears. Dystopia, everybody is going to be unemployed, and a lot of other Luddite nonsense.

The optimists basically lack imagination so they just reach for what science fiction told them is going to happen (i.e. rely on other people's science fiction). And then the pessimists basically are stuck imagining the worst always happens and failing to imagine that there might be things that actually do work.

It's fairly easy to predict/bet that both sides are probably imagining things wrong. Just like people did three years ago. Including myself here. So, not making a prediction here. But, kind of curious to see how the next few years will unfold. Lots of amazing stuff in the past three. I'll have some more of that please.

Re: Claude is the drug, Cursor is the dealer

#63

Everyone is fighting for their view of the world right now and for those of us who do not have any investment in the success of one of the models, it feels like pure speculation at this point. I don't think there's a human on this planet who can even predict the state of the industry in 3 years. In my entire time in the industry, I have always felt like I had a good line of sight three years away. Even when the iphon…

This isn‘t your main point, but the iPhone absolutely was the biggest revolution since the Internet. The world before it is wholly different to the world after it. AI looks to have a similar impact, but just like the iPhone it‘ll be a few years before everyone realizes the world has changed.

It wasn’t on day one though.

Re: Claude is the drug, Cursor is the dealer

#64
post #6

I don't know, it seems like I'm the minority but I like Cursor. I think it adds value beyond the terminal style editors. Yes it relies on the Claude model but I get a lot of value from the visual component, history, auto-complete, etc. Couldn't you make the same argument around something like S3? How many companies are basically S3 wrappers? Or companies that use general AWS infra and make it slightly better. There c…

I’d love for someone to try to define “AI wrapper”. I’m trying to imagine a graph where at some point in time t the status of a company changes from “wrapper” (not enough “original” engineering) to “proper company” (they own the IP, and they fought for it!!!) At what point did OpenAI cease being an NVIDIA wrapper and become the world’s leading AI lab? At what point did NVIDIA graduate from being a TSMC wrapper? Clear…

'Wrapper' in this instance is your primary source of value is a prompt.

I think you can think of it as how long would it take someone to come up with the product given enough information about the product.

Take for instance an app that is a "companion" app. It's simplest form is a prompt + LLM + interface. They don't own the LLM so they have the prompt and interface. The prompt is simple enough to figure out (often by asking the app in a clever way) so the interface is left. How easy is it to replicate? If it's like chatgpt, pretty easy.

Now there are a few complications. Suppose there are network effects (Instagram is a wrapper around a protocol), but the network effects are the value. And LLM wrapper can create network effects (maybe there is a way to share or something) but difficult.

OpenAI is not a wrapper on NVIDIA because it would take billions of dollars to train the LLM with the NVIDIA chips (in energy). It would take me a weekend to recreate a GPT wrapper or just fork an open source implementation. There is also institutional knowledge (which is why Meta is offering 1bn+ for a single eng). Or take something like Excel. People know how it works, people have dissected it endlessly. But the cost to recreate even with perfect knowledge is very high, plus there is network effects.

Re: Claude is the drug, Cursor is the dealer

#65
post #6

I don't know, it seems like I'm the minority but I like Cursor. I think it adds value beyond the terminal style editors. Yes it relies on the Claude model but I get a lot of value from the visual component, history, auto-complete, etc. Couldn't you make the same argument around something like S3? How many companies are basically S3 wrappers? Or companies that use general AWS infra and make it slightly better. There c…

I’d love for someone to try to define “AI wrapper”. I’m trying to imagine a graph where at some point in time t the status of a company changes from “wrapper” (not enough “original” engineering) to “proper company” (they own the IP, and they fought for it!!!) At what point did OpenAI cease being an NVIDIA wrapper and become the world’s leading AI lab? At what point did NVIDIA graduate from being a TSMC wrapper? Clear…

Taking a shot at this, one concrete definition might be that the business model is essentially white labeling, that is, the base LLM is rebranded, but task performance in the problem domain is not functionally improved in some measurable way. As a corollary, it means the user could receive the same value if they had gone straight to the base LLM provider.

I think this might be more narrow than most uses of the term “wrapper” though.

Re: Claude is the drug, Cursor is the dealer

#66

Everyone is fighting for their view of the world right now and for those of us who do not have any investment in the success of one of the models, it feels like pure speculation at this point. I don't think there's a human on this planet who can even predict the state of the industry in 3 years. In my entire time in the industry, I have always felt like I had a good line of sight three years away. Even when the iphon…

We can make some educated guesses and extrapolate some trends. But you are right that most of the people currently claiming to know what's going to happen in 3 years were fast asleep when chat gpt launched, which is almost 3 years ago. And I include myself in that group. Most in the industry did not see that coming. Not even a little bit. At this point we have half the industry being overly pessimistic and the other…

I’m not sure it was so much folks “not seeing it coming” with ChatGPT, only that anyone with anything beyond surface-level understanding of ML workloads and data science wouldn’t have thought to attempt to package such an immense, expensive, and potentially powerful product as a “chat bot”, and certainly nobody would have thought it would be a good idea to then heavily market it as some sci-fi notion of “artificial intelligence”, and proceed to gaslight the entire planet with what it might eventually be capable of. Only because, with the exception of Sam Altman, such a person would have been laughed out of a career. The only real surprise with LLMs seems to be that unscrupulous people have managed to raise so much goddamn money lying about its potential, that it’s got a real chance of crashing the global economy once everyone realizes it’s never actually gonna replace any meaningful jobs.

Re: Claude is the drug, Cursor is the dealer

#67

Everyone is fighting for their view of the world right now and for those of us who do not have any investment in the success of one of the models, it feels like pure speculation at this point. I don't think there's a human on this planet who can even predict the state of the industry in 3 years. In my entire time in the industry, I have always felt like I had a good line of sight three years away. Even when the iphon…

This isn‘t your main point, but the iPhone absolutely was the biggest revolution since the Internet. The world before it is wholly different to the world after it. AI looks to have a similar impact, but just like the iPhone it‘ll be a few years before everyone realizes the world has changed.

The iPhone opened up a whole new world of opportunities which were very clear from the start.

No one, except Steve Ballmer, would describe it as a potential fad or question how good it can actually get before Apple goes bankrupt from all the investment into this new tech.

I like this new stuff we get now, but the iPhone felt like a clear win with no downsides of a potential societal collapse.

Re: Claude is the drug, Cursor is the dealer

#68
post #6

I don't know, it seems like I'm the minority but I like Cursor. I think it adds value beyond the terminal style editors. Yes it relies on the Claude model but I get a lot of value from the visual component, history, auto-complete, etc. Couldn't you make the same argument around something like S3? How many companies are basically S3 wrappers? Or companies that use general AWS infra and make it slightly better. There c…

I’d love for someone to try to define “AI wrapper”. I’m trying to imagine a graph where at some point in time t the status of a company changes from “wrapper” (not enough “original” engineering) to “proper company” (they own the IP, and they fought for it!!!) At what point did OpenAI cease being an NVIDIA wrapper and become the world’s leading AI lab? At what point did NVIDIA graduate from being a TSMC wrapper? Clear…

Every company you mentioned is just a wrapper around elemental carbon and silicon.

Re: Claude is the drug, Cursor is the dealer

#69
post #33
post #3

I do a ridiculous amount of dumb shit with cursor without paying extra for it and I can't be the only one. There is just no way they will ever make a profit with their current all-you-can-eat model. Like there have been times I have just copy and pasted code into a cursor window for the AI to add when I could have just pasted it myself just because it makes the context easier to deal with. However, they will eventual…

You are not the only one. "Revert the changes to ..." 4 zillion tokens... 10 seconds... Instead of > git checkout just to keep Cursor in the loop. I assume I have probably eaten up my $20/month in tokens just on stuff like that.

Believe it or not, you can use Cursor and type in git checkout yourself. It's pretty wild.

Re: Claude is the drug, Cursor is the dealer

#70
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn‘t your main point, but the iPhone absolutely was the biggest revolution since the Internet. The world before it is wholly different to the world after it. AI looks to have a similar impact, but just like the iPhone it‘ll be a few years before everyone realizes the world has changed.

The iPhone opened up a whole new world of opportunities which were very clear from the start. No one, except Steve Ballmer, would describe it as a potential fad or question how good it can actually get before Apple goes bankrupt from all the investment into this new tech. I like this new stuff we get now, but the iPhone felt like a clear win with no downsides of a potential societal collapse.

Mobile phone addiction is our generation's smoking. We just don't realize it yet.
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