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Fight Chat Control

fightchatcontrol.eu

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Re: Fight Chat Control

#41

Post by ragmodel226 »

Centigonal wrote: post #25

In the US, we have government programs like PRISM and unchecked oligopolies that surveil us and use that information to identify dissent, sell us ads, and alter our behavior. In the EU, there are these initiatives to surveil us in the name of safety. Is there any regime out there who's not trying to mass-surveil their citizens for one reason or another?

This is a defeatist and damaging attitude. It detracts from the core issue at hand, which is EU government forcing code being run in private messaging apps over data before it is encrypted. It defeats the security model of end to end encrypted messaging, and leads to a society that cannot trust its communications against government interference ever again.

One can criticize analysis of mass surveillance of metadata and encrypted channels, but this is something else.

Re: Fight Chat Control

#42

Post by Geezus_42 »

morkalork wrote: post #18
mantas wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is people behind the curtains will just pick another figure head. And we can’t even get the names who want to get rid of privacy. Since names of people pushing it were redacted for their privacy :D

When the people orchestrating something like this can hide behind a veil of anonymity as well as bestow exemptions from monitoring upon the political class, it looks deeply wrong and conspiracy worthy. :D indeed.

The exemptions for politicians is straight out of 1984.

Re: Fight Chat Control

#43

Post by pessimizer »

tough wrote: post #34
pmlnr wrote: post #32

I don't remember the link to the essay that defined public, private, and secret information. Essentially it said that public is ok for anyone to hear, private is something that shouldn't concern others, whereas secret is something that needs to be kept under wraps. Under these terms most of what we're protecting with encryption is private - finances, health records, etc. I shouldn't concern others. Sadly, it does, be…

you cannot enforce law globally online there's no internet police

You didn't even need the word "online." There's no global police.

Re: Fight Chat Control

#44

Post by zwnow »

101008 wrote: post #38

I was very pissed at this, and when I read this part I couldn't continue, it boiled my blood. > *EU politicians exempt themselves from this surveillance under "professional secrecy" rules. They get privacy. You and your family do not. Demand fairness.

What a surprise, they are also paid a handsome pension after having worked in EU parliament for a few years, 4 I think. Most of us have to work for 40+ years and dont even get good retirement money

Re: Fight Chat Control

#45

Post by amarcheschi »

101008 wrote: post #38

I was very pissed at this, and when I read this part I couldn't continue, it boiled my blood. > *EU politicians exempt themselves from this surveillance under "professional secrecy" rules. They get privacy. You and your family do not. Demand fairness.

If it hasn't been changed, not only politicians but law enforcement officers too would be exempt

This is one of the many abuses by Leo(s), part why I don't love and trust police in italy: https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatti_del_G8_di_Genova#p-lan...

I thought there was an English Wikipedia page but there isn't, translate it

Re: Fight Chat Control

#46

Post by KennyBlanken »

9dev wrote: post #4
isoprophlex wrote: post #2

God fucking damn it not again This is, what, the fifth time in ten years they try to pass shit like this?

They only need to succeed one time . People are generally preoccupied with a lot of other things right now, so maybe this is their lucky shot…

cough Patriot Act cough

...which Republicans swore up and down was temporary and yet, oddly, kept getting renewed wirth no evidence whatsoever it was necessary to stop a planned terrorist attack or that it would have stopped the WTC attacks themselves.

I bet 90% of the population or more has no idea that the Patriot Act was dumped and replaced with the nearly identical FREEDOM Act. Which took multiple tries to pass because they knew if they just kept hammering away, they'd eventually get it passed.

Yeah, they called a wildly invasive domestic spying bill the "freedom" act....

Re: Fight Chat Control

#47

Post by lordnacho »

101008 wrote: post #38

I was very pissed at this, and when I read this part I couldn't continue, it boiled my blood. > *EU politicians exempt themselves from this surveillance under "professional secrecy" rules. They get privacy. You and your family do not. Demand fairness.

Can't make this shit up.

The Danish government (currently holding the rotating chair) also raised the pension age for everyone. Other than themselves.

But also, how does this get implemented? What's stopping me from using, say, Signal, which being OSS would likely have a single line I could comment out and compile for myself?

How would I get busted for that? Or I could get clever and have AI generate some random chat text to send to the government while I send the actual text to my friends?

Re: Fight Chat Control

#48

Post by Barrin92 »

rrr_oh_man wrote: post #23
ronsor wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK is politically, culturally, and geographically close to Europe. China has always been authoritarian (and hyper-centralized). The US is working hard to copy bad ideas from authoritarians, but can't do it in exactly the same way, otherwise the ability to criticize the EU, UK, and China is lost.

> The UK is politically, culturally, and geographically close to Europe. Closer than to the US? I'm not sure about the first two. The latter is also debatable, at least from the UK's point of view. Ireland feels closer to Europe than the UK does.

>Closer than to the US?

Much closer. It's a unitary state with a monarchy and parliamentary sovereignty, it's highly centralized economically and culturally. It's more European than much of Europe. Post war Germany, republican and decentralized economically is structurally more like the US than Britain. The only reason people in the US tend to identify with Britain is Anglo-Protestant identitarianism.

Britain in reality operates a lot like France or Russia, an overwhelmingly strong capital and grand historical old world nationalism with relatively weak constitutional or formal limits on government.

Re: Fight Chat Control

#49

Post by pessimizer »

croes wrote: post #27
cobbzilla wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US, at least, has a Bill of Rights that would make this illegal, it would definitely violate the 4th Amendment and maybe the 1st too.

The EU countries also have constitutions with laws that make that illegal. Still they try because there is always an exception that allows breaking those laws. Chat control isn’t something the EU invented, they tried to implement CSAM in Apple devices and the whole chat control thing in the EU was heavily lobbied by Thorn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorn_(organization)

> The EU countries also have constitutions with laws that make that illegal.

I don't think they do. They have constitutions that guarantee "Freedom of Speech" or "Expression," but don't define those terms in any way. I don't know that any of them lack legally prohibited political speech laws.

I feel the US was the origin of this "Hate Speech" nightmare that has been growing to encompass all of Western politics over the past 30 years, but the irony is that you can do slurs all day long in the US, to anybody you want, whenever you want. You will probably be ejected from the premises, though. In the US, the speech still has to be connected to a crime. In the EU, the speech itself is the crime.

Re: Fight Chat Control

#50

Post by peanut_merchant »

rrr_oh_man wrote: post #23
ronsor wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK is politically, culturally, and geographically close to Europe. China has always been authoritarian (and hyper-centralized). The US is working hard to copy bad ideas from authoritarians, but can't do it in exactly the same way, otherwise the ability to criticize the EU, UK, and China is lost.

> The UK is politically, culturally, and geographically close to Europe. Closer than to the US? I'm not sure about the first two. The latter is also debatable, at least from the UK's point of view. Ireland feels closer to Europe than the UK does.

I get that maybe you meant culturally, but Ireland is a member of the EU whereas the UK is no longer. This forces a tighter alignment so makes your point about Ireland redundant.

The UK has continuously been pulled between it's dying imperialist vision of itself as a world power, it's close but conflicted ties with the US, and it's similarly close and conflicted ties with the EU.

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