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Curious about the training data of OpenAI's new GPT-OSS models? I was too

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Re: Curious about the training data of OpenAI's new GPT-OSS models? I was too

#31

> the chains start in English but slowly descend into Neuralese What is Nueralese? I tried searching for a definition but it just turns up a bunch of Less Wrong and Medium articles that don't explain anything. Is it a technical term?

There's 2 things called neuralese:

1) internally, in latent space, LLMs use what is effectively a language, but all the words are written on top of each other instead of separately, and if you decode it as letters, it sounds like gibberish, even though it isn't. It's just a much denser language than any human language. This makes them unreadable ... and thus "hides the intentions of the LLM", if you want to make it sound dramatic and evil. But yeah, we don't know what the intermediate thoughts of an LLM sound like.

The decoded version is often referred to as "neuralese".

2) if 2 LLMs with sufficiently similar latent space communicate with each other (same model), it has often been observed that they switch to "gibberish" BUT when tested they are clearly still passing meaningful information to one another. One assumes they are using tokens more efficiently to get the latent space information to a specific point, rather than bothering with words (think of it like this: the thoughts of an LLM are a 3d point (in reality 2000d, but ...). Every token/letter is a 3d vector (meaning you add them), chosen so words add up to the thought that is their meaning. But when outputting text why bother with words? You can reach any thought/meaning by combining vectors, just find the letter moving the most in the right direction. Much faster)

Btw: some specific humans (usually toddlers or children that are related) when talking to each other switch to talking gibberish to each other as well while communicating. This is especially often observed in children that initially learn language together. Might be the same thing.

These languages are called "neuralese".

Re: Curious about the training data of OpenAI's new GPT-OSS models? I was too

#32
post #28

OP seems to have run a programming language detector on the generated texts, and made a graph of programming language frecuencies: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gx2kvNxXEAAkBO0.jpg?name=orig As a result, OP seems to think the model was trained on a lot of Perl: https://xcancel.com/jxmnop/status/1953899440315527273#m LOL! I think these results speak more to the flexibility of Perl than any actual insight on the training…

That inkblot thing can be created for any language.

How? E.g. I doubt an inkblot can produce a valid C# program.

Re: Curious about the training data of OpenAI's new GPT-OSS models? I was too

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That inkblot thing can be created for any language.

How? E.g. I doubt an inkblot can produce a valid C# program.

They are not full programs, just code translating to numbers and strings.

I used an LLM to generate an inkblot that translates to a Python string and number along with verification of it, which just proves that it is possible.

Re: Curious about the training data of OpenAI's new GPT-OSS models? I was too

#35
post #28

OP seems to have run a programming language detector on the generated texts, and made a graph of programming language frecuencies: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gx2kvNxXEAAkBO0.jpg?name=orig As a result, OP seems to think the model was trained on a lot of Perl: https://xcancel.com/jxmnop/status/1953899440315527273#m LOL! I think these results speak more to the flexibility of Perl than any actual insight on the training…

That inkblot thing can be created for any language.

Of the powerset of all operators and inputs, how many can be represented in any programming language?

What percent of all e.g. ASCII or Unicode strings are valid expressions given a formal grammar?

Re: Curious about the training data of OpenAI's new GPT-OSS models? I was too

#36
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://xcancel.com/jxmnop/status/1953899426075816164

Thanks! I've seen a lot of stuff come and go, so thanks for the reminder. For example, Libgen is out of commission, and the substitutes are hell to use. Summary of what's up and not up: https://open-slum.org/

Oh no, why did Libgen die?

Re: Curious about the training data of OpenAI's new GPT-OSS models? I was too

#37
post #36
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! I've seen a lot of stuff come and go, so thanks for the reminder. For example, Libgen is out of commission, and the substitutes are hell to use. Summary of what's up and not up: https://open-slum.org/

Oh no, why did Libgen die?

it's available at the bz tld

Re: Curious about the training data of OpenAI's new GPT-OSS models? I was too

#38
post #28

OP seems to have run a programming language detector on the generated texts, and made a graph of programming language frecuencies: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gx2kvNxXEAAkBO0.jpg?name=orig As a result, OP seems to think the model was trained on a lot of Perl: https://xcancel.com/jxmnop/status/1953899440315527273#m LOL! I think these results speak more to the flexibility of Perl than any actual insight on the training…

I don't understand why Perl, R, and AppleScript rank so much higher than their observed use.

Re: Curious about the training data of OpenAI's new GPT-OSS models? I was too

#39
post #38
post #28

OP seems to have run a programming language detector on the generated texts, and made a graph of programming language frecuencies: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gx2kvNxXEAAkBO0.jpg?name=orig As a result, OP seems to think the model was trained on a lot of Perl: https://xcancel.com/jxmnop/status/1953899440315527273#m LOL! I think these results speak more to the flexibility of Perl than any actual insight on the training…

I don't understand why Perl, R, and AppleScript rank so much higher than their observed use.

Perl and Applescript are close to natural language. R is close to plain maths

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Perl

Re: Curious about the training data of OpenAI's new GPT-OSS models? I was too

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? E.g. I doubt an inkblot can produce a valid C# program.

They are not full programs, just code translating to numbers and strings. I used an LLM to generate an inkblot that translates to a Python string and number along with verification of it, which just proves that it is possible.

what are you talking about?

the way that the quoted article creates Perl programs is through OCRing the inkblots (i.e. creating almost random text) and then checking that result to see if said text is valid Perl

it's not generating a program that means anything

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