Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A message from Intel CEO Lip-Bu Tan to all company employees

newsroom.intel.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 274 posts

Re: A message from Intel CEO Lip-Bu Tan to all company employees

#261

Post by magicmicah85 »

rco8786 wrote: post #259
magicmicah85 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am asking in good faith and I understand why there would be a preference towards private versus public. It sounds like Trump does not care to attempt a private conversation as he wants Tan out. The Cadence settlement is likely the only public info we have about Tan's conflicts, the government has more info and they aren't going to spend time working through private channels, though it sounds like Tan is trying that…

Did you ask a question? I’m not seeing one. If the government has more info that’s even more reason to make this a matter of governance, and not twitter, IMO. Genuine question, what do you think was the purpose of trump making that a public grievance instead of working on it directly with Tan?

I think Trump wants Tan out. Publicly calling him out puts pressure on him more than a private behind the scenes process that will take weeks/months versus a few days. Tan might be able to supplicate Trump by presenting a golden egg, though.

The public pressure puts Tan on defense which gives Trump leverage in negotiating with him. Not sure what Tan/Intel will need to give up to address any potential conflicts but remains to be seen what happens.

Re: A message from Intel CEO Lip-Bu Tan to all company employees

#262

Post by pezezin »

threatripper wrote: post #223
pezezin wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which alternatives? Other than Apple, where can I get a non-x86 desktop?

1. Desktop market share is shrinking and shrinking. 2. https://system76.com/desktops/thelio-astra-a1.1-n1/configure 3. NVidia N1x is not yet for sale but benchmarks are promising.

1) Shrinking compared to what? The moment you want to do any serious work or gaming, you need a desktop (or a laptop, but a real PC in any case).

2) Ok, so there is expensive workstation available. It is a step forward I guess.

3) Call me when it is available and I can buy it in any normal computer shop.

Look, I hate the x86 architectur with a passion, having grown up with MS-DOS and the horrors of real mode. But the truth is that if I want to buy a computer right now, today, it is either a x86 PC or an Apple, and I have zero interest in Apple's closed ecosystem, so a PC it is.

Re: A message from Intel CEO Lip-Bu Tan to all company employees

#263

Post by pezezin »

curt15 wrote: post #249
pezezin wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which alternatives? Other than Apple, where can I get a non-x86 desktop?

Does the Nvidia DGX Spark qualify as a desktop?

Technically yes, but I don't see the average person getting one. Much like the Raptor Talos, it is a very niche product.

Re: A message from Intel CEO Lip-Bu Tan to all company employees

#264

Post by rco8786 »

magicmicah85 wrote: post #261
rco8786 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you ask a question? I’m not seeing one. If the government has more info that’s even more reason to make this a matter of governance, and not twitter, IMO. Genuine question, what do you think was the purpose of trump making that a public grievance instead of working on it directly with Tan?

I think Trump wants Tan out. Publicly calling him out puts pressure on him more than a private behind the scenes process that will take weeks/months versus a few days. Tan might be able to supplicate Trump by presenting a golden egg, though. The public pressure puts Tan on defense which gives Trump leverage in negotiating with him. Not sure what Tan/Intel will need to give up to address any potential conflicts but re…

Right so publicly bully him into defense mode and either force him to resign or publicly bend the knee to trump.

If you genuinely don't see the problem here, I don't know what to say.

Re: A message from Intel CEO Lip-Bu Tan to all company employees

#265

Post by magicmicah85 »

rco8786 wrote: post #264
magicmicah85 wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Trump wants Tan out. Publicly calling him out puts pressure on him more than a private behind the scenes process that will take weeks/months versus a few days. Tan might be able to supplicate Trump by presenting a golden egg, though. The public pressure puts Tan on defense which gives Trump leverage in negotiating with him. Not sure what Tan/Intel will need to give up to address any potential conflicts but re…

Right so publicly bully him into defense mode and either force him to resign or publicly bend the knee to trump. If you genuinely don't see the problem here, I don't know what to say.

When President Obama privately asked Rick Wagoner to resign from GM, do you think that spared him from embarrassment or feeling bullied? There was absolutely no need for Rick Wagoner to have to resign, but the Obama administration needed a blood sacrifice to sell a bailout. A 30 year career at GM ended in disgrace because the government couldn’t trust him to turn around GM, even though he was a popular CEO.

But you’re right, the Obama administration didn’t publicly bully him, just privately did so. I don’t see one method as better than the other, there’s a use for either but they both have the same goals.

Fortunate for Tan, a lot of people don’t like Trump and he’ll probably gain more public support and potentially stay on as CEO. This is certainly where this backfires on Trump as his method of publicly shooting from the hip doesn’t always work. Tan becomes the target of the day, forgotten about a week later. This is where Trump diplomacy could work better through private methods, but we also don’t know if that’s been tried. Quite honestly, I think he just had somebody whispering in his ear and he just decided to tweet it.

Re: A message from Intel CEO Lip-Bu Tan to all company employees

#266

Post by standardUser »

smsm42 wrote: post #257
standardUser wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not an apt comparison. GM needed $50 billion in government funds just to stay alive.

So we're moving from "it never happened, it's crazy!" to "of course it's happened before, but it's different this time, so I just falsely pretended the time before didn't happen"? Of course each case is different. But Presidents interfered in economy of private enterprise for a while - including criticizing CEOs, firing CEOs, and many other intrusive acts - especially after (and including) FDR, and pretending nobody…

I didn't move shit, I stated a fact and you went apoplectic over it.

Re: A message from Intel CEO Lip-Bu Tan to all company employees

#267

Post by standardUser »

brahhd wrote: post #170
standardUser wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not an apt comparison. GM needed $50 billion in government funds just to stay alive.

All of tech is propped up by the government. GenX and Millennials watched too many "Sprite; you do you" commercials and grew up believing in their autonomy and freedom. But American government was always at the wheel, via regulation, law, and drinks in DC off the clock. It's all PR to say our system free market and the like. Intel wouldn't exist without falling in line over the decades.

Lose the argument, change the conversation? An old tactic, but a stupid one.

Re: A message from Intel CEO Lip-Bu Tan to all company employees

#268

Post by to11mtm »

Eisenstein wrote: post #255
to11mtm wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They have excellent engineering resources - why didn't they just take their ARC cards and add more RAM to them? People are dropping $2K+ on the 5090 with 32GB and would surely pay $1200+ for an ARC with 32GB or even much more for one with 64GB or higher. Absolute performance wouldn't be the benchmark; being able to load larger models would make for excellent price/performance, for many lower-end uses. This one also…

> TBH I think whatever body (JEDEC I'd guess) needs to either make DDR6 128bit That would require twice the number of pins and traces on each DIMM with corresponding extra pins on the CPU package as well and associated interconnects which would add heat as well. You end up with similar problems when you increase the number of channels per DIMM. CPU packages are strained as it is; I don't think the tradeoffs are worth…

> That would require twice the number of pins

Fair, I'll admit I wrote this after a very long work day and forgot to refresh myself on what a DIMM's pinout was actually like.

That said, Maybe instead of a DIMM it would be better to switch to a PGA or even LGA?

> and traces on each DIMM

Well, Traces are a problem regardless, at the same time it seems that Apple has managed to solve the problem by going to surface mounted chips. That said maybe(?) something like a PGA or LGA would allow for traces to be more clustered in making it a little easier to handle trace length differences...

> I don't think the tradeoffs are worth it to increase system memory bandwidth on consumer systems.

Well, I'd assume that for consumer systems you'd just have one 'channel', since at that point it's 128 bit and the equivalent of dual channel DDR5.

> CPU packages are strained as it is

Apple has managed to provide some fairly wide options in the M series though, so what are they doing that the others are not (aside from that they are effectively using more but smaller channels)?

Re: A message from Intel CEO Lip-Bu Tan to all company employees

#269

Post by soganess »

poemxo wrote: post #164
soganess wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really understand this. Intel was (and arguably still is) too large relative to its current technical capabilities. Yet even in this current “bad chips” era, Intel is only, at worst, about 10% behind in gaming performance (largely due to cache disparity) and is on par or better in most other workloads. From the K10 era until Zen 3, AMD processors were objectively worse (sometimes comically so) and AMD still m…

"in the x86 space", otherwise you would have to acknowledge that M4 far outpaces any intel iGPU.

I did acknowledge it? I said best in the x86 space and second overall. The "raw" iGPU ordering is M4, Lunar Lake, Strix Point, and finally 8 Elite. Of course, numbers aren't everything. If one actually were to pick an iGPU for gaming they would be best served by Strix Point.

I think the M4 is a fanless marvel of a chip and noticeably more interesting than the M4 Max. A fanless 6+2+10 configuration M5 with 128gb of ram would the most interesting thing in the mobile space.

But since we are splitting hairs, how good is an iGPU if you can't play most games? x86 -> windows or proton. One can't even run Linux, let alone proton, on an M4 (Asahi support stops at the M2).

Re: A message from Intel CEO Lip-Bu Tan to all company employees

#270

Post by Eisenstein »

to11mtm wrote: post #268
Eisenstein wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> TBH I think whatever body (JEDEC I'd guess) needs to either make DDR6 128bit That would require twice the number of pins and traces on each DIMM with corresponding extra pins on the CPU package as well and associated interconnects which would add heat as well. You end up with similar problems when you increase the number of channels per DIMM. CPU packages are strained as it is; I don't think the tradeoffs are worth…

> That would require twice the number of pins Fair, I'll admit I wrote this after a very long work day and forgot to refresh myself on what a DIMM's pinout was actually like. That said, Maybe instead of a DIMM it would be better to switch to a PGA or even LGA? > and traces on each DIMM Well, Traces are a problem regardless, at the same time it seems that Apple has managed to solve the problem by going to surface moun…

> Apple has managed to provide some fairly wide options in the M series though, so what are they doing that the others are not (aside from that they are effectively using more but smaller channels)?

They aren't using sockets. They are soldering it directly to the board. I figure that consumers aren't going to a buy a motherboard with a CPU and RAM soldered onto it. I could be wrong about that, but I wouldn't buy it.

They are also much more expensive. It's not that it can't be done since it is done with servers already -- it is that it can't be done for the price consumers want.

Post reply on HN