Live data from Hacker News

Job growth has slowed sharply; the question is why

stayathomemacro.substack.com

21–30 of 112 posts

Re: Job growth has slowed sharply; the question is why

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with no goal other than to cause harm My read is not that it is to cause harm / break things down per sé, but instead to deglobalize. At various times, the left and the right have made globalization the bogeyman and something to fight, so this idea has been in the ether. For many reasons (economic, geopolitics, peace), globalization is a great thing. Even if deglobalization were a great idea, then the execution is…

[flagged]

> Please don't conflate what the left has done (actual economic plans and policies that resulted in economic growth) with what the right has done (pointlessly destroyed relations with multiple countries because they didn't get their way in 2020).

Have I?

The idea of deglobalization has been a rallying cry of both the left and the right. If you don't believe me, review someone like Bernie Sanders' beliefs (e.g. https://slate.com/business/2016/06/bernie-sanders-take-on-gl...)

What I further said is that even if deglobalization is a great idea (it isn't) then the execution we're seeing now by the right is very poor. We do not know how the left would have executed because the deglobalists in the Democratic Party do not have sufficient power.

Some quotes[1] just for fun:

Bernie Sanders: “increasingly globalized economy, established and maintained by the world’s economic elite, is failing people everywhere.”

JD Vance: “the effects of globalization have hollowed out America’s industrial core.”

Trump: “Globalization has made the financial elites who donate to politicians very wealthy, but it’s left millions and millions of our workers with nothing but poverty and heartache—and our towns and cities with empty factories and plants.”

And if you think these 3 represent fringes on the left and the right, you will be wrong. During the Biden admin, US Trade Representative Katherine Tai assert that governments’ urge “to liberalize as much as possible” has led to a “race to the bottom.”

[1] https://www.cato.org/free-society/summer-2024/globalization-...

Re: Job growth has slowed sharply; the question is why

#22
post #3

>Currently, the data suggest that reduced labor supply is likely the key driver It's interesting as far as people I know looking for jobs, they're supply ... and having a hard time finding jobs. Reduced supply you'd hope you'd get a job. Granted the article addresses this both in the types of jobs and: >The stability of the unemployment rate masks effects of the low-hiring, low-firing labor market. I do wonder, if th…

Reduced demand in tech due to constraints of capital, and increased demand in agricultural and low wage jobs where immigrant labor was significant. But funny enough, we can't just ship 100k software developers from the bay to the central valley and it just work.

That’s basically the plot of Stardew Valley. Programmers yearn for the fields.

Re: Job growth has slowed sharply; the question is why

#23

Increasing wealth inequality, drives prices inflation, wage stagnation and less disposable income, driving less consumption, driving less revenue for businesses, meaning cuts happen and hiring freezes, drives slowing growth in new job market.

I think you've got your cause/effect chain a little muddled. I would also assert that the system dynamics are neither linear nor singular in the way you frame it. > Increasing wealth inequality, drives prices inflation How does increasing wealth inequality drive price increases?

The missing dynamic is that businesses are encouraged to increase growth in profit YoY.

Each year, a business needs to grow faster than it did the previous year.

If business owners get wealthy more rapidly than workers, then eventually the business will not be able to maintain increasing rates of growth, as its profit velocity exceeds the wage velocity of households. Think of a car fuel pump: you can accelerate all you want, at least your until the engine explodes, but if your fuel pump can’t pump more than 50mph of fuel, uour acceleration will crater into the negative and then flatline at 50mph when you hit that threshold — unless your efficiency gearbox has another upshift in it.

The only solutions that maintains profit growth velocity in that scenario is for the business to decrease wage velocity relative to profits velocity, and to decrease labor dollars per product. Namely, wage stagnation (which leads to wealth inequity), enshittification (which reduces customer brand investment), and layoffs (which decreases customer spending).

If, instead, businesses ensured that wage velocity matched profit velocity, then households wouldn’t have increasing wealth inequity and would be able to continue funding the growth velocity through spending. Businesses are prohibited from this by their fiduciary duty to shareholders.

AI is a last ditch attempt to discard 95% of the human creative labor force in all industries rather than face the rapid deceleration of profit growth going negative market-wide as household spending power (after inflation) continues to decrease. If AI succeeds, the eventual crash of growth velocity is delayed a few years until AI saturates the market. If AI fails, the market crashes, as investors can no longer expect positive growth acceleration from the market as a whole.

For any economic system where business profit growth acceleration exceeds wage growth acceleration, the eventual collapse of business is assured unless a miracle of productivity delays it. That’s why AI workers can get paid a quarter billion dollars: pocket change, compared to the wage inequality reckoning. That’s also why economists can’t explain inflation: they’re not yet willing to confront profit growth vs wage growth acceleration inequity as a primary cause of inflation.

Job growth has decelerated rapidly because otherwise profit growth decelerates rapidly. If this seems like killing the golden goose, that feeling typically correlates with a lack of faith in AI providing the necessary efficiency factor to permit sustaining profit growth after the one-time, profit-accelerating, inflation-spiking layoffs.

Re: Job growth has slowed sharply; the question is why

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with no goal other than to cause harm My read is not that it is to cause harm / break things down per sé, but instead to deglobalize. At various times, the left and the right have made globalization the bogeyman and something to fight, so this idea has been in the ether. For many reasons (economic, geopolitics, peace), globalization is a great thing. Even if deglobalization were a great idea, then the execution is…

> Even if deglobalization were a great idea, then the execution is haphazard, incompetent, rushed. Doesn't this apply to globalization as well? Saying "learn to code" to people who lose their jobs due to globalization is not great execution either and sets the stage for backlash.

> > Even if deglobalization were a great idea, then the execution is haphazard, incompetent, rushed.

> Doesn't this apply to globalization as well? Saying "learn to code" to people who lose their jobs due to globalization is not great execution either and sets the stage for backlash.

Globalization, or more loosely, more and more people or societies trading with each other over greater distances and competing at who does something best, has been a steady trend over the centuries and a force for good.

While an individual could get caught off guard one morning when their job is gone, when you zoom out the megatrends are slow but forceful and you can foresee a lot of the big picture. It is also easy to conflate "globalization" caused my job loss with "automation" caused my job loss.

The current deglobalization efforts, by contrast, have been haphazard, incompetent, rushed.

Re: Job growth has slowed sharply; the question is why

#25
post #10

I have been enjoying Paul Krugman's writing, now that he's free from the shackles of the New York "both sides!" Times https://paulkrugman.substack.com/p/its-beginning-to-smell-a-... He's obviously got a political angle, but doesn't let that completely color his economic analysis.

New York “both sides” Times? There are only a few papers less suited for that monicker.

Re: Job growth has slowed sharply; the question is why

#26
post #3

>Currently, the data suggest that reduced labor supply is likely the key driver It's interesting as far as people I know looking for jobs, they're supply ... and having a hard time finding jobs. Reduced supply you'd hope you'd get a job. Granted the article addresses this both in the types of jobs and: >The stability of the unemployment rate masks effects of the low-hiring, low-firing labor market. I do wonder, if th…

My read on this is most jobs growth in raw numbers occurs in the lower pay brackets. In those pay brackets supply has decreased and the people doing the hiring have not raised wages. This means these jobs aren't being filled and the work isn't getting done. This leads to lower jobs numbers and keeps unemployment rates stable.

Re: Job growth has slowed sharply; the question is why

#27

Increasing wealth inequality, drives prices inflation, wage stagnation and less disposable income, driving less consumption, driving less revenue for businesses, meaning cuts happen and hiring freezes, drives slowing growth in new job market.

I think you've got your cause/effect chain a little muddled. I would also assert that the system dynamics are neither linear nor singular in the way you frame it. > Increasing wealth inequality, drives prices inflation How does increasing wealth inequality drive price increases?

Presumably because there's a perception that if there are lots of rich people, they can afford to be gouged.

This begs the question of how many rich people there actually are, though.

Re: Job growth has slowed sharply; the question is why

#28
post #10

I have been enjoying Paul Krugman's writing, now that he's free from the shackles of the New York "both sides!" Times https://paulkrugman.substack.com/p/its-beginning-to-smell-a-... He's obviously got a political angle, but doesn't let that completely color his economic analysis.

If the political angle is not relevant to the analysis, then why do you enjoy it?

Some people enjoy things that others do not

Re: Job growth has slowed sharply; the question is why

#29
post #10

I have been enjoying Paul Krugman's writing, now that he's free from the shackles of the New York "both sides!" Times https://paulkrugman.substack.com/p/its-beginning-to-smell-a-... He's obviously got a political angle, but doesn't let that completely color his economic analysis.

Economics is political.

Re: Job growth has slowed sharply; the question is why

#30

Increasing wealth inequality, drives prices inflation, wage stagnation and less disposable income, driving less consumption, driving less revenue for businesses, meaning cuts happen and hiring freezes, drives slowing growth in new job market.

I think you've got your cause/effect chain a little muddled. I would also assert that the system dynamics are neither linear nor singular in the way you frame it. > Increasing wealth inequality, drives prices inflation How does increasing wealth inequality drive price increases?

> How does increasing wealth inequality drive price increases?

When poor people receive money, they tend to put it to circulate in the economy, by spending it. When super-rich people receive money, it goes mostly to tax havens, removing it from circulation. Business lose scale, as there is less consumers, raising unitary prices.

Post reply on HN