That's a cute story, I certainly like its tone of mystery. However, the premise seems a bit wrong (or at least the narrator is wrong). If your brain actually degenerates from usage of the ring (and is no longer used in daily life, acting only reflexively), the premise that you are the happiest from following the ring might be flat out wrong. I think happiness (I tend to think in terms of well-being, which let's say r…
The Whispering Earring
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Re: The Whispering Earring
#52The fool has the possibility for success because he is willing to try. If he knew better he would not even make the attempt.
Re: The Whispering Earring
#53That's a cute story, I certainly like its tone of mystery. However, the premise seems a bit wrong (or at least the narrator is wrong). If your brain actually degenerates from usage of the ring (and is no longer used in daily life, acting only reflexively), the premise that you are the happiest from following the ring might be flat out wrong. I think happiness (I tend to think in terms of well-being, which let's say r…
That implies that it could be maximized. Perhaps along a particular subdimension of a multidimensional concept, but still, some aspect of it could be maximized.
What would such a maximization look like in the extrema?
Could a benzene ring be the happiest thing in the universe? It's really easy to imagine some degenerate case like that coming to pass.
You can generally play this game along any such dimension; "consciousness", "agony", "love"... if you have a definition of it, in principle you can minmax it.
Re: The Whispering Earring
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
What is EA in this context?
I had to ask AI (ironically), it means Effective Altruism in this context. I'm not really sure what the parent's hate for EA comes from, but I don't hang out in those circles
Re: The Whispering Earring
#55This reminds me of another story that I saw posted on HN and has provided lots of fodder for idle conversations: Manna[1]. It's a less mystical version of the whispering earring. 1: https://marshallbrain.com/manna1
Re: The Whispering Earring
#56I read a science fiction story (maybe 40 years ago in Analog ?) about a somewhat similar device that provided life guidance. This device would detect if the choice you were currently making would likely result in your death and would flash a red light to warn you. (Something about using quantum multi-worlds to determine if you die.) Does this story ring a bell with anyone?
Not that story specifically, but maybe a modern reinterpretation of it was [this episode of Rick and Morty]( https://rickandmorty.fandom.com/wiki/Death_Crystal ).
Re: The Whispering Earring
#57> It is not a taskmaster, telling you what to do in order to achieve some foreign goal. It always tells you what will make you happiest....The earring is never wrong. > There are no recorded cases of a wearer regretting following the earring’s advice, and there are no recorded cases of a wearer not regretting disobeying the earring. The earring is always right. > ...The wearer lives an abnormally successful life, usu…
In your paradoxical sentence, "will regret" could be interpreted as either "know at that moment that they will regret" or "come to know after the fact that they regret it".
The former is a paradox, but the latter isn't.
As life advice, I think it works better when you consider it amortized over a collection of choices instead of a set of serial choices each of which it must be rigidly applied to: One should make a set of choices using a strategy that leads some of them to be likely to be regretful (but presumably without being able to predict ahead of time which ones will be).
Re: The Whispering Earring
#58> It is not a taskmaster, telling you what to do in order to achieve some foreign goal. It always tells you what will make you happiest....The earring is never wrong. > There are no recorded cases of a wearer regretting following the earring’s advice, and there are no recorded cases of a wearer not regretting disobeying the earring. The earring is always right. > ...The wearer lives an abnormally successful life, usu…
Re: The Whispering Earring
#59Re: The Whispering Earring
#60That's a cute story, I certainly like its tone of mystery. However, the premise seems a bit wrong (or at least the narrator is wrong). If your brain actually degenerates from usage of the ring (and is no longer used in daily life, acting only reflexively), the premise that you are the happiest from following the ring might be flat out wrong. I think happiness (I tend to think in terms of well-being, which let's say r…
Suppose you had a concrete definition of "happiness", as some seek a concrete definition of "consciousness". That implies that it could be maximized. Perhaps along a particular subdimension of a multidimensional concept, but still, some aspect of it could be maximized. What would such a maximization look like in the extrema? Could a benzene ring be the happiest thing in the universe? It's really easy to imagine some…
It led me to investigate formalizing ethics and if that would be even possible (so we don't fall into traps like you've mentioned)
I think I've gotten pretty good results which I've sketched here: https://old.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/1iv1x1m/the...
More to come. In summary, I became confident that we can, if we're careful, know those things and do something like 'maximize happiness' (as I said, I prefer more general terms than happiness! There's a whole universe of inner experiences beyond just the stereotypical smiley person, I think -- I tend to think of 'maximizing meaning' or 'maximizing well-being').
The basic fact that allows this process to make sense, I guess, is that our inner experiences are real in some sense, and there are tools to study them. Not only are our inner lives real, they make part of the world and its causal structure. We can understand (in principle almost exactly, if we could precisely map our minds and brains) what causes what feelings, what is good and what isn't (by generalizing and philosophically querying/testing/red teaming/etc.), and so on for every facet of our inner worlds.
In fact, this (again in principle) would allow us to make definite progress on what matters, which is our inner lives[1]. I think Susanne Langer put it incredibly well: (on the primacy of experiences as the source of meaning)
"If nothing is felt, nothing matters" (Susanne K. Langer)
This is an experimental fact, we as conscious beings experimentally see this fact is true. So in a way the mind/brain is kind of like a tool which allows us to perceive (with some unreliability and limitations that can be worked with) reality, in particular inner reality.
We can actually understand (with some practical limitations) the world of feelings and what matters. To that we simply experiment, collect evidence and properties about feelings and inner lives, try to build theories that are consistent, robust to philosophical (that is, logical in a high level sense) objections; and then we simply do what is best, or if necessary try out a bunch of ways of life and live out the best way according to our best theories.
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Addendum: Let's take the benzene ring as an illustrative example of our procedure. Someone claims 'a benzene ring is the happiest thing in the Universe, and we therefore must turn everything into a sea of benzene rings. Destroy everything else.'. Is that claim actually true? Let's explore.
It isn't, I claim: if "Nothing is felt, nothing matters". When you are asleep (and not dreaming or thinking at all, let's suppose) or dead, you don't feel anything. No, thoughts are, and must be, associated with activity in our brain. No information flowing and no brain activity, no thoughts. No thoughts, no inner life. Moreover, thoughts require a neural (and logical) infrastructure to arise. It's logically consistent with how we don't observe ourselves as rocks, gas clouds, mountains, benzene molecules, or anything else: we observe ourselves as mammals with actually large brains. There are immensely more rocks, gas particles, benzene molecules, etc.. then there are mammals in the universe. Yet we experience ourselves as mammals. Benzene molecules, rocks and gas clouds just don't have enough structure to support minds and experience happiness.