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Apple At Its Worst: It's Time to Stop Censoring Apps

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Re: Apple At Its Worst: It's Time to Stop Censoring Apps

#51

Post by eschulte »

gwright wrote: post #25
josteink wrote: post #7

Apple censoring apps in its own proprietary app-store isn't really a big deal to society as a whole. Apple censoring what other devices are allowed to exist outside their production-lines and what competing products customers are allowed to choose is.

I know that this is a hopeless request but can we stop using the word "censor" when we are really talking about curation, or editorial policy, or private business decisions, etc? Government imposed restrictions on speech and/or commerce is something entirely different from plain old business decisions and it would be nice if we didn't conflate the two things by overloading the meaning of "censorship".

"Mr. Tower's [your] distinction [...] is spurious. The essence of censorship is the suppression of a particular point of view [...] over the channels of the mass media, and the question of who does the censoring is one of form only."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_censorship

Re: Apple At Its Worst: It's Time to Stop Censoring Apps

#52

Post by gavinlynch »

jeremyjh wrote: post #32
gavinlynch wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "Still, it's a new kind of gatekeeper, and it holds the keys to a platform used by millions of people around the world. While not as horrifyingly Orwellian as it could be, the fact that the biggest company in U.S. history makes decisions about which content is too "objectionable" for its customers is unsettling." I am forever bewildered by consumers that have this sense of entitlement around a company and "demand"…

So the OP cannot express an opinion about what Apple should do, without "having a sense of entitlement"? Can you describe what an "un-entitled" criticism would look like, or how it would differ from the OP? Or should we just not ever criticize Apple because they are a private company and we can buy Android devices?

No not at all. My comment regarding bewilderment at the sense of entitlement behind making demands of companies has more to do with personality differences than anything else. I realize that I am a consumer, and they are the producer of a consumer good. That is my relationship with Apple. That's it.

The "entitlement" is just my perspective of what I see as a group of individuals who align themselves with the OP's viewpoint in scolding Apple, taking shots at, and generally nitpicking it's wall-garden philosophy; A very vocal, relatively speaking extremely small minority of consumers who demand that the company change it's policies to fit their whims and philosophies.

I guess I would never be so presumptuous to think like that. To me, the company does what it wants, and when the public votes with their dollars, their business decisions are either validated or they are not.

And there is something that I just can't grasp about the hand-wringing and scolding about the app store. The iPhone is a great product, the app store is arguably one of the most successful new ventures of apple in the last decade, arguably the most successful app store for any mobile device. And by and large, the system works. So this barrage of criticism of edge cases is just...confusing to me, to say the least.

I appreciate that the writer is concerned about Apple and about consumers. But this concept that the writer's ideas are protecting Apple's long-term survival as a company in a fluid land-scape while at the same time bringing about pro-consumer changes just rings hollow to me. It feels like energy misplaced.

Re: Apple At Its Worst: It's Time to Stop Censoring Apps

#53

Post by Steko »

"25 Billion Apps Later, Things Have Changed"

I love how the App's store's success is used against it here. You've been so successful with your approach you need to totally turn your back on it and be more like these relatively unsuccessful stores!

Huh, or maybe that success is partly because they curate and decided not to turn their device's third party app economy over to pirates and spammers.

Re: Apple At Its Worst: It's Time to Stop Censoring Apps

#54

Post by CamperBob2 »

gavinlynch wrote: post #12
onetimeuse001 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's their company. They can do whatever they want. If you don't like it, that's great. Dissenting opinions are a foundation of this great country. But Apple also deserves the right to not care what you think, and not care if you go somewhere else. The majority of consumers have no problem with it. Too bad Bill Gates isn't looking for a lawyer or advocate now. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft

Are you suggesting Apple is a monopoly?

If they succeed in enjoining everyone else's smartphones, then yes, they are a monopolist, and should be held to the same standards that Microsoft was held to.

Re: Apple At Its Worst: It's Time to Stop Censoring Apps

#55

Post by mangler »

sp332 wrote: post #15
drivebyacct2 wrote: post #2

People that keep writing articles like this should not buy Apple. Apple is going to do what they're going to do. Either accept it or buy Android. Those are your options. But let's be serious, Apple risks "consumer trust"? Not in any way that is likely to be measurable.

Apple is going to do what they're going to do. Either accept it or buy Android. That's not the only option. We don't allow property owners to randomly abuse other people as long as they're on their property. We don't tell those people, "well if you don't like it, just go somewhere else." We have laws that apply no matter who the owner is, to prevent abuse.

You can (and should) be removed from private property for not complying with the rules.

Apple makes it very clear: "We view Apps different than books or songs, which we do not curate. If you want to criticize a religion, write a book. If you want to describe sex, write a book or a song, or create a medical app. It can get complicated, but we have decided to not allow certain kinds of content in the App Store."

Go to Walmart and take your clothes off and see what happens. Nobody dragged you into that party and I'm guessing nobody even invited you. You looked at the market and picked what you thought was the best.

Stallman and his "free" Chinese tech are always at hand if you really feel abused.

Re: Apple At Its Worst: It's Time to Stop Censoring Apps

#56

Post by Steko »

magicalist wrote: post #22

The standard "they're a private company/Android is an alternative" reply to this argument remains shortsighted. I'm an actor in the economy as well, and and I can apply non-monetary pressure (like editorials) just as well as Apple can (like advertising) to try to get a product that I want and a policy that I want in the same place. "Accepting it" leads to non-optimal solutions. We can disagree on what is optimal, of…

"the argument in this article is weak. It's not an argument to stop censoring apps, it's just saying, "continue blocking speech, except when its speech that I like". "

That's how a proper counter-argument has to be structured. "just do what I want to do" is bullshit and does nothing to counter to "Apple is a private company". It has to be "what you did in case X is outrageous". Not serving people without shirt and shoes as a policy is acceptable. Not serving black people as a policy is outrageous.

"Personally, I believe the answer is to allow side loading"

The "sideloading is enough" view concedes that not approving Drones+ fails the outrageousness test above.

Re: Apple At Its Worst: It's Time to Stop Censoring Apps

#57

Post by Steko »

drcube wrote: post #28

"Apple at its worst" is the chicanery of not letting you own the device they sold you. App store censorship wouldn't be a problem if there were other ways to get the programs you want and/or need.

"not letting you own the device they sold you"

This is blatantly false and I'm getting sick of it. You own the device. For various reasons Apple designed the device to only work with one store. That isn't secret info not available to the buyer.

Re: Apple At Its Worst: It's Time to Stop Censoring Apps

#58

Post by sp332 »

slantyyz wrote: post #42
sp332 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Physical abuse isn't the only kind... ok let's use a real legal concept: After an item has been sold, the former owner has no say in how the item is used by its new owner. But Apple locks iPhones to only install software from their app store, and then censors the app store. This effectively limits what users can do with their devices even though Apple no longer owns them. Apple can't put legal restrictions on users (…

Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony do the same with their consoles, but I don't really see a whole lot of complaining about that. Why is the curated walled garden so egregious with a smartphone? I'm not sure I recall Apple ever bragging about being an "open" marketplace past the "If you don't like our app store, build a web app" statements they've made in the past. And as for "After an item has been sold, the former owner…

Did you miss the class-action lawsuit and incredible flamefests over the removal of OtherOS from the PS3?

Re: Apple At Its Worst: It's Time to Stop Censoring Apps

#59

Post by slantyyz »

sp332 wrote: post #58
slantyyz wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony do the same with their consoles, but I don't really see a whole lot of complaining about that. Why is the curated walled garden so egregious with a smartphone? I'm not sure I recall Apple ever bragging about being an "open" marketplace past the "If you don't like our app store, build a web app" statements they've made in the past. And as for "After an item has been sold, the former owner…

Did you miss the class-action lawsuit and incredible flamefests over the removal of OtherOS from the PS3?

Yeah, but the OtherOS isn't really why the majority of people buy PS3s, they buy them for the games.

The point is that walled gardens have been around for a long time, but it seems like people are more likely to get their knickers in a knot when Apple does it.

Re: Apple At Its Worst: It's Time to Stop Censoring Apps

#60

Post by drcube »

Steko wrote: post #57
drcube wrote: post #28

"Apple at its worst" is the chicanery of not letting you own the device they sold you. App store censorship wouldn't be a problem if there were other ways to get the programs you want and/or need.

"not letting you own the device they sold you" This is blatantly false and I'm getting sick of it. You own the device. For various reasons Apple designed the device to only work with one store. That isn't secret info not available to the buyer.

It isn't yours if you don't control it. Period. You can use it only by the grace of Apple. If Apple decides you shouldn't use it anymore, it's bricked. If Apple goes out of business, your iphone is worthless. That isn't ownership. Not in my book, at least. Maybe your definition is different.
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