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Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

open-web-advocacy.org

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Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#221

Post by Rusky »

duffyjp wrote: post #201

Everybody is talking about Chrome, but I tell ya what I have that disabled on my Android in favor of Firefox. Firefox on mobile with full-fat uBlock Origin is the closest thing to parity with desktop web access you can get. I don't just block ads, I block elements on sites I don't care about with :has-text RegEx rules. You can't do that on Chrome even on desktop anymore. I'm this close to swapping to the Android as m…

I've been using https://messages.google.com to get something like the desktop iMessage experience with Android- does that work for your use case? (I don't use iMessage so I could just be missing some killer feature it has, or something.)

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#222

Post by edude03 »

garyclarke27 wrote: post #3

This is good news, the US should join in aswell in stopping this despicable behaviour by Apple. Apple handicaps browsers because web apps are the only viable alternative to Native Apps which generate huge commission for Apple.

More likely because otherwise companies would have no reason to support Safari, they'd tell everyone to download chrome like they do on desktop - then google would have no incentive to optimize chrome for iOS because what would you use otherwise?

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#223

Post by tpmoney »

HWR_14 wrote: post #171
Hamuko wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should probably not use Facebook then. How is it that the answer to an American megacorp trying to hoover all of your personal data is to try to get another American megacorp to add universal barricades to your device?

> How is it that the answer to an American megacorp trying to hoover all of your personal data is to try to get another American megacorp to add universal barricades to your device? Because only Apple has the power to stop Chrome from being the only browser (like IE) or to stop Meta from insisting you give up all privacy. A government may be able to do it within their own borders for a period of time, but Meta, Googl…

> A government may be able to do it within their own borders for a period of time

Part of the problem is the governments are proving they aren’t interested in doing it. Aside from the fact that law enforcement agencies are happy to have easily legally compelled data like this, the governments are actively fighting e2e encryption and strong on device encryption. And then on top of that, if they really were interested in solving that problem, you’d think they’d be spending legislative power on solving that before solving forcing the 2nd place market competitor to open their OS up.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#224

Post by 827a »

duffyjp wrote: post #201

Everybody is talking about Chrome, but I tell ya what I have that disabled on my Android in favor of Firefox. Firefox on mobile with full-fat uBlock Origin is the closest thing to parity with desktop web access you can get. I don't just block ads, I block elements on sites I don't care about with :has-text RegEx rules. You can't do that on Chrome even on desktop anymore. I'm this close to swapping to the Android as m…

If its the difference-maker for you: Google Messages has a web experience, and in my not-recent experience it works great.

The iOS 26 keyboard (public beta) is the biggest regression I've ever seen Apple make, and they're a company infamous for regressions. It for me has been the tipping point.

[1] https://messages.google.com/web/

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#225

Post by Zak »

AlexandrB wrote: post #148
radiofreeeuropa wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chrome did that three ways: 1) performing better and crashing less than mainstream alternatives (just IE and Firefox, then) on non-Mac platforms (so, most desktop computers) for a good long while; 2) aggressive advertising to trick people who don't actually give a shit what browser they're running (or even know) into downloading it because "google said it would make my gmail work better" or "I dunno, google just told…

Many people have memory-holed Chrome's malware-grade tactics like including an installer in unrelated sourceforge downloads and now think that Chrome won strictly on its merits.

People have similar misconceptions about Google search.

The reality is that both had significant advantages over their competition when launched, but the company also used anticompetitive tactics to ensure dominance once those gaps closed.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#226

Post by radiofreeeuropa »

kelthuzad wrote: post #210
radiofreeeuropa wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course there's conflict of interest. I'd prefer we address all the things their actions motivated by that conflict of interest are shielding me from before we smack them down, though. After that, yeah, I'll take up a pitchfork, too. For now, they're my AnCap-approved optional private enforcement regime against a bunch of the antisocial and market-capturing behavior of the rest of tech, since public regulators are…

My initial suspicion of you being a bad faith actor who is just regurgitating "Apple PR talk" has been proven true. 1) Here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44813704 you regurgitate the classic Apple propaganda of "web apps are akshually not 'real' apps" - what makes apps 'real' for Apple propagandists is clearly when everybody is forced to pay Apple 30% tax. 2) The hallmark of the irrational Apple shill is also…

You've got some serious biases sending you some weird places in evaluating my posts.

> 1) Here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44813704 you regurgitate the classic Apple propaganda of "web apps are akshually not 'real' apps" - what makes apps 'real' for Apple propagandists is clearly when everybody is forced to pay Apple 30% tax.

Yeah, that's my opinion on every platform, including back when I used Android. It's my opinion on Void Linux. It's my opinion everywhere, whether or not Apple's getting a cut (why would I possibly care that they make more money? Hell I'd love for them to have actual competition in their specific niches, to put downward pressure on their profitability, as far as their actual products they sell go). I've come to it through extensive engagement with the Web and various native ecosystems over decades, as both a user and developer. Webtech is a steaming pile of ass. It's so bad it makes the prior standard-setters for "steaming pile of ass" in its field look good. If I were somehow made Dictator of Technology for the World by a wish-granting genie, I would ban web apps, flat out (and do a lot of other things that would make market-distorting massive tech companies, including Apple, very sad)

> Then you disingenuously claim

Frankly, fuck off. You're being a dick for absolutely no reason. That's the flat-out truth. I could wrap that in HN-friendly passive-aggression, but screw that, you need to chill the fuck out, to be blunt.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#227

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan »

radiofreeeuropa wrote: post #131
meibo wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safari is not a good browser, by design, because it's in Apple's interest to cripple the Web as a platform. If they want their browser to be actually competitive instead of forcing people to use it, they should make a good browser. That is markets working as they are supposed to.

Counterpoint: Safari is by far the best mainstream browser, because it's got the only engine that gives half a shit about battery life, and because they push back on shitty features Google wants to make "standard" so they can trash my UX and the computing ecosystem even more.

I remember there was a time years back when there were "light" variants of apps, usually intended for underpowered or older Android phones, but that also came in handy if you were in a situation where you had shitty cell service, or if you needed to preserve your battery. You could run the Opera Mini browser on a trash phone and it was blazing fast without wrecking your battery. Maybe 5% of sites would have a rendering issue, but you could always switch back to your main browser if you needed to use it.

Nowadays, I think the trend is more toward putting a battery-saver or data-saver mode inside an existing app, rather than creating an entirely new app, and I don't see any reason why Apple couldn't do something like this in Safari if they wanted to.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#228

Post by bigyabai »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #185
namibj wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine banning sale and import, wonder how long Apple stores have to be closed for Apple to give in....

Wouldn't people in Japan riot because they can't buy iPhones and be part of the tribe? There are few things in life people like more than their iPhones.

I think you're extrapolating America's materialism to other cultures that don't necessarily care so much. There's not really any feature of the iPhone that can't be replaced by another product. It's only Americans that feel the need to slake brand loyalty with army-of-one boycotts.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#229

Post by zuhsetaqi »

827a wrote: post #224
duffyjp wrote: post #201

Everybody is talking about Chrome, but I tell ya what I have that disabled on my Android in favor of Firefox. Firefox on mobile with full-fat uBlock Origin is the closest thing to parity with desktop web access you can get. I don't just block ads, I block elements on sites I don't care about with :has-text RegEx rules. You can't do that on Chrome even on desktop anymore. I'm this close to swapping to the Android as m…

If its the difference-maker for you: Google Messages has a web experience, and in my not-recent experience it works great. The iOS 26 keyboard (public beta) is the biggest regression I've ever seen Apple make, and they're a company infamous for regressions. It for me has been the tipping point. [1] https://messages.google.com/web/

What did they change on iOS 26 in the keyboard?

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#230

Post by jlund-molfese »

tristan957 wrote: post #170
nuker wrote: post #130

(Narrator) In one year Chrome market share hit 100% in Japan, and became the only browser websites are designed for.

You're completely ignoring the staying power of defaults. Most users do not change anything about their system defaults.

Apart from ChromeOS, most desktop operating systems default to other browsers. Yet Chrome is estimated to have ~70% of desktop browser market share. So defaults can't be much of a defense against browser advertising, especially on Google-owned properties.
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