Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple At Its Worst: It's Time to Stop Censoring Apps

readwriteweb.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 63 posts

Re: Apple At Its Worst: It's Time to Stop Censoring Apps

#41

Post by MartinCron »

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #8
MartinCron wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same fundamental problem, but side-loading isn't the only way to address it. People leaving the platform can apply market pressure on Apple to do the right thing.

It's not a very compelling message though: I'm leaving you Apple, because you censor apps, to another platform that also censors apps! (Granted, in all fairness, the Android Market removes apps as well, but side loading is kind of the eventuality here).

Fair point, but I see it more as a question of degree.

It's not preposterous to say "I'm leaving you because you do too much of something I don't want (pollute, overcharge, play bad hold music, whatever) for someone else that does a little less of that same thing that I don't want (pollute, overcharge, play bad hold music, whatever)"

If the market pressure is strong enough (I don't think it is, this is all hypothetical) then it could be something that Apple and Microsoft and Android and others actively compete on.

Re: Apple At Its Worst: It's Time to Stop Censoring Apps

#42

Post by slantyyz »

sp332 wrote: post #26
ryannielsen wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abuse? I think you may be stretching there… A closer analogy is we do allow private property owners to decide what signs and other publicly visible items may be present on their property. Property owners are allowed to dictate who's allowed on premises. We also allow private organizations to decide who may join their organization. Stores are allowed to decide what products they retail. Private media are allowed to de…

Physical abuse isn't the only kind... ok let's use a real legal concept: After an item has been sold, the former owner has no say in how the item is used by its new owner. But Apple locks iPhones to only install software from their app store, and then censors the app store. This effectively limits what users can do with their devices even though Apple no longer owns them. Apple can't put legal restrictions on users (…

Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony do the same with their consoles, but I don't really see a whole lot of complaining about that.

Why is the curated walled garden so egregious with a smartphone?

I'm not sure I recall Apple ever bragging about being an "open" marketplace past the "If you don't like our app store, build a web app" statements they've made in the past.

And as for "After an item has been sold, the former owner has no say in how the item is used by its new owner.", that depends. For commodities, sure, but there such things as sales contracts that can restrict what is done with an item that has been sold.

Re: Apple At Its Worst: It's Time to Stop Censoring Apps

#43

Post by hcarvalhoalves »

Focusing on the wrong point.

It's not a matter of censoring anything, because the AppStore is theirs, and they can do whatever they want and not even have to explain their decision.

It's about defining who is the owner of the device, and who controls what goes or not in it. This is the case you can take to court.

Re: Apple At Its Worst: It's Time to Stop Censoring Apps

#44

Post by pook1e »

epo wrote: post #18
josteink wrote: post #7

Apple censoring apps in its own proprietary app-store isn't really a big deal to society as a whole. Apple censoring what other devices are allowed to exist outside their production-lines and what competing products customers are allowed to choose is.

Blocking flagrant copying by a commercial competitor is not censorship.

Please, explain to me how the Galaxy Nexus is the result of "flagrant copying".

Re: Apple At Its Worst: It's Time to Stop Censoring Apps

#45

Post by thwest »

hcarvalhoalves wrote: post #43

Focusing on the wrong point. It's not a matter of censoring anything, because the AppStore is theirs, and they can do whatever they want and not even have to explain their decision. It's about defining who is the owner of the device, and who controls what goes or not in it. This is the case you can take to court.

Are any of these articles criticizing Apple calling for the government to forcibly open the AppStore? No. We are making demands as Apple customers.

Re: Apple At Its Worst: It's Time to Stop Censoring Apps

#46

Post by eschulte »

josteink wrote: post #7

Apple censoring apps in its own proprietary app-store isn't really a big deal to society as a whole. Apple censoring what other devices are allowed to exist outside their production-lines and what competing products customers are allowed to choose is.

Let's say roughly 1/3 Americans own an iphone [1]. So yes, wether you like them or not and weather it is legal or not, Apple's politics (and I think keeping information from US citizens about their militaries actions is bad politics) are important.

[1] probably not the best link, but probably close enough to the right answer http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_percentage_of_Americans_own_a...

Re: Apple At Its Worst: It's Time to Stop Censoring Apps

#47

Post by andyfleming »

If you don't like it buy an Android!

Honestly, I love how Apple protects the user experience. Whether from spam, or "inappropriate content". They have created a relatively spam-free app store with pretty reliably "clean" content.

I don't even think it is an issue of free speech. I'm all for the web being open and free, but Apple has a right to manage their market the way they see fit. Just because so many people use iPhones doesn't change anything. You are FREE to choose a different phone. If you don't like their app market, go use a phone that has a market you do like.

Re: Apple At Its Worst: It's Time to Stop Censoring Apps

#48

Post by pdonis »

pulplobster wrote: post #39
gavinlynch wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "Still, it's a new kind of gatekeeper, and it holds the keys to a platform used by millions of people around the world. While not as horrifyingly Orwellian as it could be, the fact that the biggest company in U.S. history makes decisions about which content is too "objectionable" for its customers is unsettling." I am forever bewildered by consumers that have this sense of entitlement around a company and "demand"…

Tell me why we shouldn't demand devices that we can change, do whatever we please with? Why shouldn't we demand that computing devices has an override, or some way of running whatever software the owner wants it to? What would happen to Apple if we had these kinds of regulations? Would the iphone never have happened? I doubt it. Businesses don't have any rights on their own, only the rights we give to them. When the…

Tell me why we shouldn't demand devices that we can change, do whatever we please with?

You can demand this all you want, as long as the only way you enforce your demand is by choosing what products to buy.

But if you mean "demand" as in "make laws and regulations", as it's clear you do, then I disagree.

When the interests of companies goes against the interests of the people, then we regulate.

No, we buy something else or go without.

At the end of the day, we're talking about smartphones and apps here. You do not need to have an iPhone. You do not need to have apps. If you don't like what's on offer, and all your efforts at persuasion fail, then, as I said, you buy something else or go without.

For example, I can't stand the MPAA and RIAA. I've blogged repeatedly about their stupid, shortsighted business practices and their attempts to get draconian laws passed to emasculate general purpose computers. But I have no right to demand that they make their products the way I want them to, or else we'll get the government to regulate them. If they refuse to listen to reason, as they have, I simply buy something else or go without. Which means that I almost never buy music or movies now. I do not have an iPhone, or an iPad, or any other iDevice, and have no plans to buy one, for the same reason.

Re: Apple At Its Worst: It's Time to Stop Censoring Apps

#49

Post by Artistry121 »

josteink wrote: post #7

Apple censoring apps in its own proprietary app-store isn't really a big deal to society as a whole. Apple censoring what other devices are allowed to exist outside their production-lines and what competing products customers are allowed to choose is.

I think a lot of the App Store rules will have to change eventually. It is anti-competitive for them to not allow apps that duplicate their functionality and Apple has "market-power". I'm not a lawyer but it seems to me that someone with strong market power and restrictions in place to slow competitors or ban them entirely is good grounds for an anti-trust suit.
Post reply on HN