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Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

open-web-advocacy.org

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Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#81
post #63

Is this a good thing? Doesn't this just expand the marketshare of Chromium?

You'd be able to use proper Firefox there. And it is a good thing, it weakens Apple's malicious control over Web standards (sabotage of using SPIR-V for WebGPU is Apple's fault).

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#82
post #63

Is this a good thing? Doesn't this just expand the marketshare of Chromium?

Safari is not a good browser, by design, because it's in Apple's interest to cripple the Web as a platform. If they want their browser to be actually competitive instead of forcing people to use it, they should make a good browser. That is markets working as they are supposed to.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#83
post #44

> the determination is made based on the degree of likelihood that [it will prevent alternative browser engines] If you interpret that very liberally, doing a region-locked "you can release alternate browser engines but only regionlocked to japanese apple accounts" could be seen as intentionally preventing alternative browsers from existing. Why would mozilla port firefox when it can only target a tiny fraction of it…

To increase their already tiny fraction of marketshare by another tiny fraction?

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#84
I think this is a net good in the long term. Even if you completely exclude obvious benefits, like being able to support more APIs than Safari, it forces Apple to actually compete with other browsers and implement things if they start getting real market share.

Not that you really should, but Safari has a limit of 500 tabs. Why? It's arbitrary. Safari doesn't support WebRequest in blocking mode, so you can't have real adblockers (just MV3 style content blockers, like uBOL). There are all sorts of edge cases too, like if you want cross-browser sync and extensions. Sure, you can totally run Safari with extension support, but extensions in e.g., Orion are shaky at best.

The biggest claim that Apple made about this whole thing was that web browsers offered an attack surface increase as a result of giving JIT to other browsers, and they could be owned. Frankly, though, I would take a browser without JIT if I had a real adblocker.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone can contribute to chromium. It's an open source project so improvements and popularity benefits everyone, not just Google.

The main issue with Chromium is not that it's not that it benefits Google. The main issue is that it's so mainstream, it strongarms standardization bodies making them ineffective. Chromium is so mainstream that developers think developing for other browsers is irrelevant, even putting notices of deprecation for Safari and Firefox. W3C is on the brink of irrelevancy, because if it works on Chromium, why bother with th…

How has chrome abused there'd position? Generally from what I've seen most of their standards are sane and improve the web.

I was told they were breaking adblockers, using ublock lite which complies with the changes I don't notice a difference. And even this change I could have switched browsers it didn't break the web.

There's some pwa features only they support, and that's a feature I think could actually benefit me.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#87
post #82
post #63

Is this a good thing? Doesn't this just expand the marketshare of Chromium?

Safari is not a good browser, by design, because it's in Apple's interest to cripple the Web as a platform. If they want their browser to be actually competitive instead of forcing people to use it, they should make a good browser. That is markets working as they are supposed to.

What is your argument that Safari is not a good browser?

Using market forces to encourage more consolidation into a single engine is *bad*.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone can contribute to chromium. It's an open source project so improvements and popularity benefits everyone, not just Google.

The main issue with Chromium is not that it's not that it benefits Google. The main issue is that it's so mainstream, it strongarms standardization bodies making them ineffective. Chromium is so mainstream that developers think developing for other browsers is irrelevant, even putting notices of deprecation for Safari and Firefox. W3C is on the brink of irrelevancy, because if it works on Chromium, why bother with th…

> Chromium is so mainstream that developers think developing for other browsers is irrelevant, even putting notices of deprecation for Safari and Firefox.

Hugging Face's spaces does this, throwing banners saying it only supports Chrome. Makes me throw up a little bit every time I have to switch over.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#89
post #63

Is this a good thing? Doesn't this just expand the marketshare of Chromium?

If Safari can only survive because Apple has a monopoly on browsers on iOS then it's a shit browser.

Firefox is overall a fine browser. Still has 2% marketshare.

There's also the fact that websites themselves need to be mindful of multiple browser engines existing because of Safari. Once users are able to install Chrome on iPhones, developers will just abandon every other engine wholesale.

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