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Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

open-web-advocacy.org

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Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#11

Post by Sayrus »

agust wrote: post #2

So after the EU and the UK, Japan is now putting an end to Apple's iOS alternative browser engine ban too. Those are 3 large jurisdictions, I wonder if that's now a market big enough for Chrome and Firefox to invest into iOS versions of their browser that use Blink and Gecko under the hood. From what I heard this was one of the main reasons they haven't done it yet.

From the same website, there are still blocks put in place by Apple to discourage anyone, especially large browsers, from publishing their own engine: https://open-web-advocacy.org/blog/apples-browser-engine-ban...

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#12

Post by uamgeoalsk »

ImHereToVote wrote: post #9
kjfaejgoaeijhei wrote: post #4

to anyone who believes this is good news: enjoy your chrome monoculture in a few years when apple stops developing safari

I use Brave. Just fork it.

good for you. you're still supporting google by using a chromium-based browser

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#13

Post by charcircuit »

agust wrote: post #2

So after the EU and the UK, Japan is now putting an end to Apple's iOS alternative browser engine ban too. Those are 3 large jurisdictions, I wonder if that's now a market big enough for Chrome and Firefox to invest into iOS versions of their browser that use Blink and Gecko under the hood. From what I heard this was one of the main reasons they haven't done it yet.

I wonder if it would make more sense and be easier for Firefox to switch to Blink, working together with Google making an alternate browser engine for iOS.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#14

Post by agust »

immibis wrote: post #6
agust wrote: post #2

So after the EU and the UK, Japan is now putting an end to Apple's iOS alternative browser engine ban too. Those are 3 large jurisdictions, I wonder if that's now a market big enough for Chrome and Firefox to invest into iOS versions of their browser that use Blink and Gecko under the hood. From what I heard this was one of the main reasons they haven't done it yet.

I thought it was because Apple still put so many roadblocks in the way of browser developers that nobody was able to pass them.

Yeah other reasons I've heard of include the obligation to adopt iOS-specific APIs for features like scrolling and text inputs; developing a separate app for these markets and therefore loosing their existing userbase; and signing a pretty crazy contract, among other things.

But the bigger the market they can reach, the bigger the reward, and so at some point it may justify investing resources to work around those roadblocks and accept the drawbacks.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#15

Post by jeroenhd »

agust wrote: post #2

So after the EU and the UK, Japan is now putting an end to Apple's iOS alternative browser engine ban too. Those are 3 large jurisdictions, I wonder if that's now a market big enough for Chrome and Firefox to invest into iOS versions of their browser that use Blink and Gecko under the hood. From what I heard this was one of the main reasons they haven't done it yet.

AFAIK the main reason is that only the EU+UK cared about these rules and their market share is too small for companies like Google or Mozilla to invest into.

Because of the way the App Store works, browser engines segregated by region need to be two different apps. That means maintaining two source trees (EU+UK+JP vs worldwide) and two releases with two reviews.

I expect niche browsers to have a go at porting to iOS at some point (I'd love to see a project like Ladybird be the first non-Safari browser on the app store!) but for the major companies it seems like too much of a hassle at the moment.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#16

Post by charcircuit »

uamgeoalsk wrote: post #12
ImHereToVote wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use Brave. Just fork it.

good for you. you're still supporting google by using a chromium-based browser

Anyone can contribute to chromium. It's an open source project so improvements and popularity benefits everyone, not just Google.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#17

Post by reorder9695 »

charcircuit wrote: post #13
agust wrote: post #2

So after the EU and the UK, Japan is now putting an end to Apple's iOS alternative browser engine ban too. Those are 3 large jurisdictions, I wonder if that's now a market big enough for Chrome and Firefox to invest into iOS versions of their browser that use Blink and Gecko under the hood. From what I heard this was one of the main reasons they haven't done it yet.

I wonder if it would make more sense and be easier for Firefox to switch to Blink, working together with Google making an alternate browser engine for iOS.

It'd probably be easier but not good, diversity in engines is good here. We don't want something like the IE monopoly again.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#18

Post by agust »

jeroenhd wrote: post #15
agust wrote: post #2

So after the EU and the UK, Japan is now putting an end to Apple's iOS alternative browser engine ban too. Those are 3 large jurisdictions, I wonder if that's now a market big enough for Chrome and Firefox to invest into iOS versions of their browser that use Blink and Gecko under the hood. From what I heard this was one of the main reasons they haven't done it yet.

AFAIK the main reason is that only the EU+UK cared about these rules and their market share is too small for companies like Google or Mozilla to invest into. Because of the way the App Store works, browser engines segregated by region need to be two different apps. That means maintaining two source trees (EU+UK+JP vs worldwide) and two releases with two reviews. I expect niche browsers to have a go at porting to iOS…

Yeah that's why the bigger the market they can reach with a version using their own engine, the more likely they are to invest into doing it.

Now the question is what's the threshold for this market to be big enough? Maybe Japan's joining in pushes it past that point.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#20

Post by mzajc »

charcircuit wrote: post #16
uamgeoalsk wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

good for you. you're still supporting google by using a chromium-based browser

Anyone can contribute to chromium. It's an open source project so improvements and popularity benefits everyone, not just Google.

The ability to contribute and the rights granted by the license are two separate issues. Google isn't obligated to accept and is more than likely to reject patches that don't align with its incentives (reversal of recent anti-adblock changes, removal of telemetry/spyware, etc.)
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