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Germany's identity crisis: The trains no longer run on time

washingtonpost.com

31–40 of 105 posts

Re: Germany's identity crisis: The trains no longer run on time

#31
post #28

[flagged]

Are you implying it's a WW2 reference? Did not occur to me before I saw your comment.

It was the first thing that came to my mind, even though that referenced Mussolini. But I think about WWII probably too often. Maybe the editor wasn't thinking that at all.

Re: Germany's identity crisis: The trains no longer run on time

#32
post #18

I moved to Germany 10 years ago and while regional and suburban train service has been great, the long distance service has been terrible, with high prices, almost no high speed service and no competition. I'm Italian and therefore I had very low expectations, but at least high speed trains in Italy run better than Germany (at least until recently, when lack of regular maintenance work ultimately made its dent into t…

> high speed trains in Italy run better than Germany Not to excuse the German performance, but part of the reason is that the Italian high-speed railway network is significantly simpler than the German one, also in terms of interconnections with neighbouring countries: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Italy_TAV.png#/media... https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:ICE_Network.png#/med...

Germany is much flatter than Italy - while the the line between Bologna and Florence, Florence and Rome, Rome and Naples, must go through a lot of mountains or steep hills. Also, Italy is a territory with a lot of seismic activity every year, and that's something you can't ignore when you send trains at 300 km/h.

Re: Germany's identity crisis: The trains no longer run on time

#34
post #9

Germany, like America, is operated by and for the benefit of car companies. Their infrastructure difficulties share root causes with America's.

Or there is a sane explanation - People drive cars -> People push their politicians to improve road infrastructure -> less money for other infrastructure -> trains are underfunded -> trains and tracks are having maintenance issues a reliability starts to fall apart -> people drive cars even more.

if you judge driving cars as 'sane', sure; I don't

Re: Germany's identity crisis: The trains no longer run on time

#35

When I toured Germany in the 1980s with a train pass, there were clocks all over the train stations. If the train was scheduled to start at 11:07, when the big hand clicked to 7, the train started to move. It was wonderful. BTW, the D community is all over the world. We schedule a zoom meeting each month. When we began the meetings, and the meeting started at, say, 8, the meeting organizer would say "we need to wait…

This was the biggest culture shock for me coming from military aviation to software. In the former, a brief starts exactly on time, down to the second. "5-4-3-2-1-hack. Time is 0800."

I think I'd get tarred and feathered if I did that at my company.

Re: Germany's identity crisis: The trains no longer run on time

#36
post #12

No longer? They were bitching and moaning when I visited fifteen years ago in my hostel. They got horrified when I told them they're coddled to be annoyed about 15 minute delays and spoke on how things are in the states... anyways this is troubling I guess... but it's not new . Edit: also, I found the English UI to be the best in the EU (yes, better than UK's) and traveled the continent on DB, so while I sympathize w…

>they're coddled >bitching and moaning Why is this always the American answer when anything good about EU gets brought up that maybe turned worse? Vacation, workdays, sickdays, parental leave, free schooling and healthcare? and public transport as here. It is a question of money, investment and what society you want. You chose the Ford F-150. For me in Sweden, we also have worse rail now, also due to the same issue.…

American here, very tired of the response you note. It's self defeating and depressing. Feels like any expectations for a good experience, for things to work, to be treated like a person, is mocked as childish naivete.

Re: Germany's identity crisis: The trains no longer run on time

#37
post #28

[flagged]

Are you implying it's a WW2 reference? Did not occur to me before I saw your comment.

It would be an odd reference to make since it's usually applied to Mussolini, falsely (it's propaganda, he did not actually make the trains run on time[0].) I suspect in this case it just generally refers to some archetype of efficient modern German infrastructure and engineering.

[0]https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-15/stop-sayi...

Re: Germany's identity crisis: The trains no longer run on time

#38
post #10
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's from August 5th. It includes some nice graphs, apparently the punctuality really plummeted around 2020.

I wish the author would dive into that even a little bit. It looks like COVID killed the performance. Why? And what about post COVID?

The way neoliberalism dealt with the public sector including rail service and infrastructure and then come up with "COVID killed Deutsche Bahn" is like saying that poor old sucker who was pushed down the staircase succumbed to his running nose. The problems run much deeper and were already visible in the 70s and 80s, but because it's only the public sector and rail traffic, not about more highways and more cars and then even more cars it never got fixed. Because who needs rails and trains, right.

Re: Germany's identity crisis: The trains no longer run on time

#39
post #13
post #8

The punctuality of the trains has been more of a joke for quite a bit, I don't think it's a big part of German identity. The part that is really terrible are the long-distance trains. Not that the regional trains are always punctual, their reliability varies a lot per route. But they're not as bad as the long-distance trains. One big recent improvement is the Germany ticket, for 58 EUR per month you can take any regi…

I got the impression they have a different cultural definition of "late" -- they'd get as mad about a 15 minute delay as folks in the states would get about an hour plus delay.

6 minutes is late for DB. But trains are often much later (or cancelled).

Re: Germany's identity crisis: The trains no longer run on time

#40

When I toured Germany in the 1980s with a train pass, there were clocks all over the train stations. If the train was scheduled to start at 11:07, when the big hand clicked to 7, the train started to move. It was wonderful. BTW, the D community is all over the world. We schedule a zoom meeting each month. When we began the meetings, and the meeting started at, say, 8, the meeting organizer would say "we need to wait…

Fun fact, all train clocks in Germany synchronize ever minute. That's why the second hand freezes every minute: its actually set to be a bit too fast, and then gets held at the top until the radio signal comes to let it continue.

https://youtu.be/Er5VIgJqvtg

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