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World wide wasteland

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Re: World wide wasteland

#41
post #14
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what HTTP redirects are for: http://support.google.com/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&#38...

That isn't very useful if you are not sysop of the site the old content links to.

Of course. The responsibility for maintaining a link lies with the linked to site. My point is there are mechanisms that allow the links on the web to change without breaking it.

Re: World wide wasteland

#42

I still have lots of external links on my personal website, and I still put up external links almost any time I comment on Hacker News. I write FAQ documents on a few dozen subjects that are set up with links that work by copy-and-paste into emails or on most forums that aren't programmed to actively suppress active links. (Thus those FAQ documents work fine here on Hacker News.) Links do sometimes break, and the mos…

I would say that Norvig is an edge case both because he is in academia in general and computer science in particular. On the one hand, his website reflects research which has largely been dead-tree published, and on the other, he understands the importance of controlling the database where his information is stored as well as maintaining the integrity of that database.

Incidentally, most of Norvig's personal page is linked to content on Norvig.com, not to other sites.

[Edit] As a qualitative measure of how far Norvig.com is from the mean, imagine the comments it would draw as an "Show HN: Feedback" thread.

Re: World wide wasteland

#43
post #3

The problem with the utopian vision of the linked web is that links to meaningful content elsewhere on the web die. In November of 1994, I created a personal web page. I linked the one image (the logo of the university where I intended to go to go to grad school). By March, the link was broken. The school had redone its website. The world wide web broke the social contract implicit in Gopher. Geocities is no longer o…

Linkrot is a real problem, but it's nowhere near as harmful as PageRank was. Once links have commercial value, people don't want to give them away for free. Serious publishers quit making links to outside sites and soon other people got out of the linking habit.

This problem has been solved 7 years ago. In 2005, Google introduced nofollow:

  ...
I believe that nofollow was mainly introduced to fight against guest book spam, so links in comments wouldn't be accounted by the PageRank algorithm, thus removing the incentive for that nasty spam.

However, you can also use nofollow to link to your competitors without increasing their page rank.

Re: World wide wasteland

#44

Flagged for the really obnoxious "subscribe to our newsletter" pop-up (that apparently is more important than the content on the page, since it hides the content as you get a few sentences in), and, as others pointed out, for committing the same crime it's ranting about. This really smells like spam, and either way, isn't HN quality.

Hey man, I spent 8 hours working on that post. It's most definitely not spam!

Re: World wide wasteland

#45
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was one of the major challenges Ted Nelson's 70s/80s Xanadu project though would need to be addressed in order to produce a deployable hypertext system. It seems like they were wrong on that front: the web won out by just deploying without addressing it.

Ah, good ol' WorseIsBetter.

[deleted]

Re: World wide wasteland

#46

Revisiting my comment from a couple of weeks ago, "mass media, which includes Google, however they may try to deny it, lives by the numbers, which means adapting to the lowest common denominator. Just think, as the Internet spreads, Google will evolve (devolve) closer and closer to broadcast TV!" Just substitute "the Web" for "Google"; the Web is becoming television!!

Totally agree. But unlike traditional media, on the Web you can be a broadcaster too without any permission.

The problem is the "mass" part. While I agree that not needed approvals is a good thing, from the point of view of "massification", mass broadcasting just makes it go faster. You have the lowest-common-denominator on both ends of the communication channel. It strengthens the old joke about calling the TV an "idiot box": It has an idiot on both sides.

The reason the internet won't actually get as bad as TV is the lack of approvals, and relatively low cost even for good quality production. The problem is that it gets harder to find amongst all the bleep. Search engines help, but I have found some useful sites, by following links, that apparently aren't indexed by Google or DuckDuckGo.

Re: World wide wasteland

#48
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linkrot is a real problem, but it's nowhere near as harmful as PageRank was. Once links have commercial value, people don't want to give them away for free. Serious publishers quit making links to outside sites and soon other people got out of the linking habit.

This problem has been solved 7 years ago. In 2005, Google introduced nofollow : ... I believe that nofollow was mainly introduced to fight against guest book spam, so links in comments wouldn't be accounted by the PageRank algorithm, thus removing the incentive for that nasty spam. However, you can also use nofollow to link to your competitors without increasing their page rank.

that's indirection and psychological warefare on the part of Google.

in the big picture you give them data and they process it as they wish; "nofollow" is just a suggestion. for instance, they can compute metrics of it such as the ratio of follow/nofollow links pointing to a site and feed it into their scoring system

good links do get passed around in comments (this is the blog post you really should read about this) that shouldn't be nofollowed, while other webmasters are stingy and nofollow everything they link. so who knows what Google or bing does with this.

What is clear is that if you play it safe and give no link, Google won't give them any credit.

Re: World wide wasteland

#49
If you browse around jwz's site, you really get a sense of what a hypertext site can be. I like it a lot. :-)

I've had an idea for an 'autolink' took for a while - it'll go through your HTML-base and generate links to other pages based on a statistical likelihood that your word is related to the other page(s).

Re: World wide wasteland

#50
I'm not sure what blogging niches of the web this author is referring to, but the economic/political blogs that I frequent share links all the time, and they all have blogrolls, too (Ex. [1][2][3]). I even picked up links from a bunch of them on my amateur econ/pol blog a few months ago when I pointed out a mistake in a graph a bunch of them were sharing. So linking is not completely dead from where I sit. It's not even dying. YMMV.

[1] http://marginalrevolution.com/ [2] http://econlog.econlib.org/ [3] http://www.volokh.com/

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