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AWS European Sovereign Cloud to be operated by EU citizens

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Re: AWS European Sovereign Cloud to be operated by EU citizens

#21

Post by nradov »

tensor wrote: post #8
CamperBob2 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. Someone should look into why all these companies tend to be started in the US, and not in the EU.

I think that's pretty straightforward. The US VC funding is far greater and easier to obtain than in Europe or other western nations. But it's a bit of a chicken and egg scenario. The US VC space exists partly because of the wild success of silicon valley. Once it got a significant lead it became a self re-enforcing system. To compete, other countries need their own VC system which is a bit tricky. It requires likely…

They would also need to reform other rules such as bankruptcy.

Re: AWS European Sovereign Cloud to be operated by EU citizens

#22

Post by gitremote »

"The Cloud Act is a law that gives the US government authority to obtain digital data held by US-based tech corporations irrespective of whether that data is stored on servers at home or on foreign soil. It is said to compel these companies, via warrant or subpoena, to accept the request."

https://www.theregister.com/2025/07/25/microsoft_admits_it_c...

Re: AWS European Sovereign Cloud to be operated by EU citizens

#23

Post by wkat4242 »

tensor wrote: post #8
CamperBob2 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. Someone should look into why all these companies tend to be started in the US, and not in the EU.

I think that's pretty straightforward. The US VC funding is far greater and easier to obtain than in Europe or other western nations. But it's a bit of a chicken and egg scenario. The US VC space exists partly because of the wild success of silicon valley. Once it got a significant lead it became a self re-enforcing system. To compete, other countries need their own VC system which is a bit tricky. It requires likely…

I don't think we should have so much VC anyway. Most of that is just basically gambling. Most of these startups crash and burn. Here in Europe we frown on that, just like we frown on taking out loans and credit cards.

Here in Europe the best credit rating is for the person who's never needed a loan or credit before. It proves they're smart with money. But US citizens have to roll money between credit cards monthly.

The VC in the US mainly existed because interest was so low that money was easy to throw around and see if it stuck. That's no longer the case but these companies are from the time it was.

I don't think we should try to become another America. We don't want unconstrained ratrace capitalism here. And we can never out-US the US (even though China does manage to do that). We should just make alternatives in our own way. Solid with good foundations, play the game by our rules not someone else's.

Re: AWS European Sovereign Cloud to be operated by EU citizens

#24

Post by greatgib »

At the moment that the thing is operated and owned by an US company, they are subject to the law and will of the US government and so obviously not sovereign.

I'm wondering if someone could sue them for "deceptive marketing statement" under European law.

Sadly a lot of company will pretend to believe the marketing of aws to have an excuse to use aws and pretend to be using a safe sovereign cloud.

Also, I have doubt that the European employees and entities with all access and review to source code, and everything. It will probably be European technician running black box servers in an European data center.

Re: AWS European Sovereign Cloud to be operated by EU citizens

#25

Post by adamcharnock »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #6
tensor wrote: post #4

But it's still ultimately supporting a US company. The world needs a diversity of companies not just subsidiaries of the same few US companies.

True. Someone should look into why all these companies tend to be started in the US, and not in the EU.

I left a comment fairly related to this a while back:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43465403

But there _is_ also an attitude difference. In terms of willingness to take risks and innovate, the USA does do very well for itself, and I think the UK does ok too. But that cannot be said for the EU countries I’ve lived in. Stable reliable long term safe jobs seem to be more the name of the game, and starting a company is seen as a big and risky commitment. Whereas in the US and UK you can start a company in your lunch break.

It is a generalisation, and I’m part of a wonderful entrepreneurial community here in Munich. But even there everyone says how risk averse European businesses are. I really really wish it wasn’t true.

Re: AWS European Sovereign Cloud to be operated by EU citizens

#26

Post by crazygringo »

dabedee wrote: post #9

AWS claims their cloud is "sovereign" and "independent" while remaining owned by a US corp subject to US law (including the CLOUD Act). That's not how sovereignty works. EU citizen operators don't change the fact that the underlying technology, patents, and corporate control remain American. Zero details on pricing, available services, or how they'll handle conflicts between US law and their "sovereignty" promises. F…

> That's not how sovereignty works.

Actually, it is. It will operate as a subsidiary company based in Europe. That means it's 100% subject to European law, not American law. And being staffed by Europeans means they are immune to any US legal threats. I.e. the US can't compel a European employee to reveal data under a subpoena the way it could compel American citizens.

Amazon remains the owner and controls the technology, yes. But as long as things are encrypted correctly and the hardware is in Europe, the data is secure from the US government. Sure Amazon or any cloud provider could build a back door, but that will eventually be discovered whether by hacker or whistleblower and their reputation will be forever ruined and they'll lose all corporate and government business forever. It's not in Amazon's corporate self-interest to allow a back door like that.

Re: AWS European Sovereign Cloud to be operated by EU citizens

#27

Post by croes »

skgough wrote: post #11
fimdomeio wrote: post #5

This sounds so weird. Is there a legal requirement for this? Does this offer any type of real protection? Or is there a code of conduct that that intelligence agencies never hire people with foreign nationalities?

It sounds like a natural expansion of AWS GovCloud offerings to me. Servicing the US government and it's contractors has been very lucrative for AWS. Taking that successful model into new markets makes sense.

They just forget to mention that the CLOUD Act makes sovereignty impossible as soon as anything of the service is owned or operated by a US company.

Re: AWS European Sovereign Cloud to be operated by EU citizens

#29

Post by dabedee »

crazygringo wrote: post #26
dabedee wrote: post #9

AWS claims their cloud is "sovereign" and "independent" while remaining owned by a US corp subject to US law (including the CLOUD Act). That's not how sovereignty works. EU citizen operators don't change the fact that the underlying technology, patents, and corporate control remain American. Zero details on pricing, available services, or how they'll handle conflicts between US law and their "sovereignty" promises. F…

> That's not how sovereignty works. Actually, it is. It will operate as a subsidiary company based in Europe. That means it's 100% subject to European law, not American law. And being staffed by Europeans means they are immune to any US legal threats. I.e. the US can't compel a European employee to reveal data under a subpoena the way it could compel American citizens. Amazon remains the owner and controls the techno…

Being "100% subject to European law" doesn't override the parent company's obligations under US law. At best, it creates a legal conflict where AWS must violate either US or EU law. Which one will the US parent company prioritize if/when faced with enforcement actions?

The only way this would work is if the European operation were truly independent & separately owned, no corporate control from the US. But I don't think that's what AWS is proposing.

Re: AWS European Sovereign Cloud to be operated by EU citizens

#30

Post by blitzar »

greatgib wrote: post #24

At the moment that the thing is operated and owned by an US company, they are subject to the law and will of the US government and so obviously not sovereign. I'm wondering if someone could sue them for "deceptive marketing statement" under European law. Sadly a lot of company will pretend to believe the marketing of aws to have an excuse to use aws and pretend to be using a safe sovereign cloud. Also, I have doubt t…

> believe the marketing of aws to have an excuse to use aws and pretend to be using a safe sovereign cloud

and pay a premium for the pleasure of course

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