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What's a $4000 Suit Worth?

nytimes.com

151–160 of 198 posts

Re: What's a $4000 Suit Worth?

#151
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> number of buttons that match your personality I'll bite: what correlation is there between your personality and the number of buttons on your ideal suit?

So think of how conservative it is. Someone older, and more conservative could pull of a double breasted suit jacket where someone younger would look like they are wearing a costume. Where something like a single button jacket would is a bit flashier and would fit someone who is much more out going and confident. There are a lot of variations on the same thing. I can just think of styles that run the scales of tradit…

Buttons have to deal with the level of formality.

Single buttons have their roots in the single-breasted dinner jacket or tuxedo. If you want your jacket to have an increased level of formality, you'd go with a single button.

Two-button suits are more standard, common for business and every-day suiting. Formal enough for the majority of situations when you'd wear a suit, but not quite "after six" level of formality for an evening event or dinner.

Three-button jackets should be left to casual suits or odd-jackets. Adding more buttons on the single-breasted suit adds an increased level of informality. Works best on casual, seasonal fabrics like seersucker, linen, tweed, corduroy, etc.

Double-breasted jackets have their roots in the military and are often paired with peak lapels, which are more formal than the notched lapels of most suits. So, a double-breasted suit would be definitely on the more formal end.

So, I wouldn't say that buttons are about "personality" as much as it is the situation in which you'll be wearing the suit.

Re: What's a $4000 Suit Worth?

#152

Yet another submarine: http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html The suit is dead for any number of reason, dittos bespoke clothing. $4000 is several times what I spend on clothes in a year. It's several times what I spend on clothes in several years. There's a far less expensive option that's highly satisficing. Suits, once an inexpensive, practical, standardized alternative to more ornate and expensive clothing, are now…

If you get out of your tech-bubble, you'll notice this as very far from the truth. Suits are the work dress in consulting, financial services, pretty much anything where you're clients demand respect and are not in IT (IT and personal visual aestethics have an inverse relationship, in any big company you can easily tell who is in IT). Try to attend a management meeting in Europe, China, Japan without a suit. Within t…

> Try to attend a management meeting in Europe, China, Japan without a suit.

You don't even have to go as far as management meeting. In Japan, if you have any sort of white-collar job (with few exceptions in tech companies and research departments), you wear a suit.

Re: What's a $4000 Suit Worth?

#153
post #60

Frew, who apprenticed with a Savile Row tailor, can — all by himself, and almost all by hand — create a pattern, cut fabric and expertly construct a suit that, for about $4,000, perfectly molds to its owner’s body. In a city filled with very rich people, he quickly had all the orders he could handle. You don't have to be Wall Street to figure out the bleedingly obvious solution to being a starving artist who has so m…

Most of the time proponents of price-elasticity make me laugh. And, I do say this with respect. I used to be one of these proponents. I inhaled business book after business book once done with engineering school. And, I played the game. And I got my ass handed to me. In the real world price elasticity works within a very narrow range that is industry and product specific and can --and usually is-- highly dependent on…

I think the economics of pricing your labour are different from the economics of pricing something you manufacture. I mean, yeah, in this case, he's manufacturing something, but his whole value proposition is that something constitutes an enormous amount of labour.

Yeah, he can hire underlings, but managing people is a completely different skillset. (I mean, to manage skilled people, you need to have a pretty good knowledge of that skill... but you also need to know how to manage people.)

Under those conditions? eh, I think that raising prices when you are turning away business makes a lot of sense. I mean, right now, I'm doing the same thing with consulting type work. I apologize and usually hand out referrals when I quote a price, but eh, I don't need the work. If I scare off the customer, good.

I think people are also more understanding about you changing the price of your labour than about you changing the price of a mass-manufactured good. Most people understand that you have busy times and not so busy times.

also note, in most expensive things? customers pay different amounts based on their negotiation skill and perceived ability to pay. I mean, I'm trying to sell co-location, and, well, mostly failing using the 'here is the price on the website; everyone pays this price' model. I even lowered existing customer's prices when I lowered the price for new customers. Nope. Nobody cares. In co-location, if you want to sell, you give 10%- for the life of the customer, including upgrades to the salesguy. (mind you, for the small fish, my customers, this guy just throws you an email and you take it from there. He does no work ongoing) Obviously, as my margin on the larger co-lo packages isn't all that much more than 10% (which is completely reasonable; it's not that much work for me... most of it goes to the data centre owner. I mostly just handle the network.)

Anyhow, I guess my point is that most customers, when buying expensive things, are absolutely used to the situation where you spend two weeks fucking around on the price, where everyone pays a different price and nobody knows what the renewal price will be. Sometimes, in fact, it seems to me like they prefer that model.

Re: What's a $4000 Suit Worth?

#154
To me, my $4000 Savile-Row suit is worth twice as much. It's not bespoke, it's made-to-measure. Sort of half way to bespoke.

I don't need to wear suits, I never really have. I've always worked for relaxed companies, never been to a wedding (well, apart from the one I bought the suit for).

But I'm a skinny guy. Even the slimmest of fitting shirts and suits on the rack didn't really fit. My suit? It's like a glove. I put it on and feel awesome. And this is why my suit is worth every penny.

Re: What's a $4000 Suit Worth?

#155
So what is it that makes the tailoring impenetrable to automation? For example why couldn't pieces be cut with a laser cutter? Why can Chinese workers create a suit in 30 minutes and US workers only in 10 hours?

I wonder if modern machines wouldn't be able to do completely different things, too. Why does cloth have to come in flat sheets? Maybe modern machines could produce cloth that already has shapes (like knitting machines, only more fine grained?). No more sewing required?

Re: What's a $4000 Suit Worth?

#156
post #3

One of the first things I did when I got my first 'real' job was get a custom-made suit from a place in our neighborhood; it was $1000 and he did like 25 measurements and said it would be 2 weeks until it was ready. Turns out he was sending the measurements to Korea where the suits are custom made then shipped back, and then they do final alterations in the US. I've ordered 3 more since then by just sending an email…

That's a made-to-measure (MTM) suit, which is a completely different animal than a bespoke. I get MTM suits for myself, but I have a cousin that buys bespoke. They're so nice...

Re: What's a $4000 Suit Worth?

#157
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

patio11, pg, tptacek... who is the fourth? I'm on the lookout for more very high quality contributors; sticking to their feeds instead of the front page (I still check front and new, just not as often) has greatly increased the value of this site for me. (Thanks Patrick, Thomas, and Paul!)

Patio11, Tptacek, Danso, and SatvikBeri I don't read pg, because a lot of his comments come across as babysitting HN, which is necessary for him to do, but not something I want to spend my time on. I believe that what you put before your eyes, becomes what is in your brain, and you can only think about what you've seen before. What you think about is what gets written on your heart, and our actions are based on our h…

Yeah I am also of the same opinion about high quality contributors. I have a Hacker News Reader iPhone/iPad app on the market and I just had a feature idea from this.

It would be awesome to tag users as favorites and then view their comments from the home page.

Also it would be beneficial to tag some users as annoyingly political so that their comments get hidden automatically.

Re: What's a $4000 Suit Worth?

#158

Yet another submarine: http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html The suit is dead for any number of reason, dittos bespoke clothing. $4000 is several times what I spend on clothes in a year. It's several times what I spend on clothes in several years. There's a far less expensive option that's highly satisficing. Suits, once an inexpensive, practical, standardized alternative to more ornate and expensive clothing, are now…

It may only be the top 0.01% but there are also only really a handful of established tailors who offer full bespoke. I really doubt there are more than 100, maybe 200 tops. They serve all the oil money playboys, the Chinese new wealth, the business magnates, all of the world's wealthiest customers. Often these customers purchase suits in large quantities too (The measuring process gets significantly less intensive each time you purchase a new suit) and have the ability to fly the tailors to their homes. I think a lot of people here underestimate the sheer quantities of suits these 0.01% purchase. The average person here may have two or three suits, they may have two or three closets of suits.

If anything, bespoke clothing is doing better than it has in almost a century. China's incredible boom has led to a whole new crop of millionaires with an insatiable desire for western luxury goods. Suits, purses, jewelry, wristwatches, everything. LVMH's spectacular profits are a good proof of this.

People have been saying "the suit is dead" for a number of years now. Yeah, maybe it is, maybe we will never go back to Mad Men days of suits in the office and dinner jackets at night, maybe the suit as a consumer good is on its last legs. But the bespoke suit, the suit as a piece of craftsmanship is doing better than ever.

Re: What's a $4000 Suit Worth?

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you say, are you in SF? Also, your email isn't visible in your profile unless you put it in the 'about' box.

What I'd kill for isn't a suit, but a decent set of casual clothing that actually fits (see my post elsewhere on this post). I rarely-to-never wear suits. While not completely fashion-averse, I'm pretty pragmatic when it comes to clothing: it should cover my nakedness, not be uncomfortable, be easy to care for, and look reasonably well. Jeans or khakis and button-downs work well for me, a washable wool could also wor…

Do you have a tailor?

I buy cheaper department store clothing and have it tailored. It fits me like a glove. The quality isn't quite the same, but the price come out in my favor.

Re: What's a $4000 Suit Worth?

#160
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read the article more closely. This is about craftmanship trying to survive in an age where craftmanship itself does not scale. It's not about the "submarine PR" phenomenon that concerns the Paul Graham article.

I am willing to bet someone that knew what they where doing could program a machine to cut fabric based on all those measurements thus saving time. That by it's self is scale. Next step, 3d imaging to capture some / all of those measurements automatically. Once you start down the path it's the classic R&D vs vs market size debate, but nothing says you need to diminish quality as you start to scale.

This may work for the initial fitting, but that is a relatively one. Some of the later fittings, particularly in the shoulder areas are more difficult and more trial/error.
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