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Financial lessons from my family's experience with long-term care insurance

whitecoatinvestor.com

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Re: Financial lessons from my family's experience with long-term care insurance

#71

Post by ta555555 »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #2

Delay, deny, defend --- this is the insurance industry's modus operandi. Insurance is the only industry where customers are the enemy.

The alternative is to depose them.

It's a massive shame how he is treated right now. Right after the deposition of one mass murderer CEO, another would-be mass murderer insurer backtracked their plans to limit time under anesthesia.

Deposition works.

Even those who believe human lives are equal (they are not) have to admit the price of one dead (bad) person outweighs the number of people who would have died or had serious complications from rushed procedures.

Re: Financial lessons from my family's experience with long-term care insurance

#72

Post by byryan »

vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #53
GnarfGnarf wrote: post #4

There are three things a nation needs to accept about universal health care: (1) It’s expensive (2) Everybody has to pay (3) The government’s gotta run it

(1) is not correct. The US spends more than other nation per capita on health care (3) isn't correct either. It needs to be regulated in some way. Government doesn't have to run it. I think it should be treated more like a utility

Your first point doesn't mean that universal health care in the US would not be expensive. It definitely would, not that the USG couldn't afford it, but it wouldn't be cheap.

Agree with your second point.

Re: Financial lessons from my family's experience with long-term care insurance

#73

Post by k4shm0n3y »

mike_d wrote: post #16
gruez wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The government’s gotta run it But there are plenty of countries with functioning healthcare systems that are private? The Swiss, for instance. Moreover depending on what counts as "government’s gotta run it" (paying for it? administering it? actually providing care?) you can argue that the German or even Canadian systems aren't government run, at least to some degree.

In the Swiss system the private insurance companies are required to be non-profits. The government sets the standard for care and coverage and all the companies can do is compete on price. Basically what Obamacare was originally intended to be before they had to compromise to get it passed.

Who were they compromising with? The Congress had large Democrat majorities in both houses during the ACA legislative process.

Re: Financial lessons from my family's experience with long-term care insurance

#74

Post by silisili »

lvl155 wrote: post #12

Healthcare in the US is broken and they won’t let you fix it because the money is too good. Think about the fact that PBMs, which is there to save and manage on pharma is incentivized to promote drug price inflation. That’s just one “small” piece of this clusterf*k. It’s layers and layers of these convoluted system of incentives. As to OP, the simplest solution is to move out of the US early enough or become “poor” e…

Healthcare is little more than a jobs program at this point.

I believe it is the largest industry by employment in every single state now.

That compounds the problem even further. Really fixing it would put a double digit percentage of people out of work. I'm all for it, but I can see why politicians are hesitant.

Re: Financial lessons from my family's experience with long-term care insurance

#75

Post by lazyasciiart »

SilverElfin wrote: post #69
SoftTalker wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote a longer response but deleted it as it was just a personal anecdote. Suffice it to say I'll never buy LTC insurance or participate in any elder care such as "assisted living" or "nursing care." It's all (IMO) engineered to drain old people of their assets before they die. Providing care is nowhere on the list of motivations of anyone involved.

Some states are forcing you to buy LTC insurance. I’ve heard Washington does this through some convoluted laws.

Yea, just like the country forces you to buy Medicare, except convoluted because people hate social safety nets.

Re: Financial lessons from my family's experience with long-term care insurance

#76

Post by lazyasciiart »

pyuser583 wrote: post #6
wwweston wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The crucial understanding is that incentives are cross aligned because the product is risk coverage. The more immediate/pressing your need for risk coverage, the worse it is for them to sell it to you. The less you need it, the better it is for them to sell it to you and the worse for you to buy it. Pretty different than ice cream or cars or housing. Too many people just think “oh corporate greed” without thinking ab…

This is why state's have insurance commissions. In the past, insurance companies (think: liability, fire, life, shipping) responded to a claim by hiring a lawyer and negotiating down. Like most contracts. So states began creating insurance commissions, which serve as law firms that defend consumers from insurance companies. In practice, their existence forces insurance companies to pay what they are owed. We need ins…

LTC insurance is covered by insurance commissions.

Re: Financial lessons from my family's experience with long-term care insurance

#77

Post by lazyasciiart »

SoftTalker wrote: post #65
dehrmann wrote: post #45

> they each paid about $14,000 in annual premiums for 10 years, and the daily benefit started at $200 per day. Insurance companies have to make money, but that's not that good of a deal, and the payout isn't that high ($73k annually) considering you won't be doing much else.

Consider also that by the time you need a nursing home or some other form of continual skilled care you are probably going to die within that year. "Long-Term" is sort of a scare tactic that is used to get you imagining that you're going to be needing expensive skilled care for years. That can happen, but isn't normal.

Severe dementia id exactly when it does happen, though. Most patients die within months of moving into a nursing home. Dementia patients average ten years.

Re: Financial lessons from my family's experience with long-term care insurance

#78

Post by TuringNYC »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #3
jqpabc123 wrote: post #2

Delay, deny, defend --- this is the insurance industry's modus operandi. Insurance is the only industry where customers are the enemy.

There seems to be no will to replace this dysfunctional arrangement with a social safety net unfortunately.

>> There seems to be no will to replace this dysfunctional arrangement with a social safety net unfortunately.

I think one problem is that healthcare in many cases is meant to tackle the 1.5-2 sigma problems -- so naturally few people really encounter bad healthcare. The others thing they have good healthcare, until they are unlucky enough to encounter an issue.

I'm shocked how many people on my exact same health plan at work think it is a great plan.

Re: Financial lessons from my family's experience with long-term care insurance

#79

Post by Avicebron »

silisili wrote: post #74
lvl155 wrote: post #12

Healthcare in the US is broken and they won’t let you fix it because the money is too good. Think about the fact that PBMs, which is there to save and manage on pharma is incentivized to promote drug price inflation. That’s just one “small” piece of this clusterf*k. It’s layers and layers of these convoluted system of incentives. As to OP, the simplest solution is to move out of the US early enough or become “poor” e…

Healthcare is little more than a jobs program at this point. I believe it is the largest industry by employment in every single state now. That compounds the problem even further. Really fixing it would put a double digit percentage of people out of work. I'm all for it, but I can see why politicians are hesitant.

> Really fixing it would put a double digit percentage of people out of work. I'm all for it, but I can see why politicians are hesitant.

I'd love to hear what you think "really fixing it" is, please share.

I can report that all (almost all?) of the hospitals and their networks both big and small in the area I am in have had layoffs this year of admin staff and healthcare professionals (nurses, doctors, etc). They have reduced bed counts, and cut programs and treatment options available. All of this was done in the name of the "affordability crisis" and is kind of like the 3rd wave of this kind of consolidation, belt-tightening behavior. And..prices haven't gone down, and they keep cutting.

Re: Financial lessons from my family's experience with long-term care insurance

#80

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

silisili wrote: post #74
lvl155 wrote: post #12

Healthcare in the US is broken and they won’t let you fix it because the money is too good. Think about the fact that PBMs, which is there to save and manage on pharma is incentivized to promote drug price inflation. That’s just one “small” piece of this clusterf*k. It’s layers and layers of these convoluted system of incentives. As to OP, the simplest solution is to move out of the US early enough or become “poor” e…

Healthcare is little more than a jobs program at this point. I believe it is the largest industry by employment in every single state now. That compounds the problem even further. Really fixing it would put a double digit percentage of people out of work. I'm all for it, but I can see why politicians are hesitant.

My father's doctor says she doesn't want healthcare reform or more doctors because then their salaries will tank.
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