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Ask HN: Is Google still a cool place to work?

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Re: Ask HN: Is Google still a cool place to work?

#121

Post by michaelochurch »

tytso wrote: post #116
michaelochurch wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much of the issues with this former Googler is that he may have had some good/interesting ideas but he failed at garnering support. I had widespread engineering support, actually. The problem was that (a) the people managing that product didn't understand the importance of quality in content, and (b) they were under obscene deadlines (which almost certainly wasn;'t their fault). What really kicked me in the shins was…

I had widespread engineering support, actually From what I saw on the engineering-wide mailing list, where you told people who had many more years of engineering experience than you that they were full of sh*t, I'm sorry to say, no sir, you didn't have widespread engineering support.

We're talking about two different times. The RGI had a lot of support, and everyone who knew about it knew that it was the right way to go. That was in late July/early August before management started cracking down on internal dissent (the first Real Names PIPs were getting served around late August/early September).

Eng-misc went to hell about a month after that. By that point, it was obvious that RGI was going to fail due to executive pressure and that higher-ups were cracking down on internal dissent, so only the loyalists were even speaking up.

Re: Ask HN: Is Google still a cool place to work?

#122

Post by Bamafan »

pg wrote: post #114
michaelochurch wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You, sir, are deeply wrong. You are maligning my company. YOUR company? You're telling me you get your pick of the best projects, and that you have at least one of triumvirate on speed dial any time you want to hash out an idea? You think those SVPs and VPs and managers-of-managers-of-managers you're putting yourself out there to defend give a shit about you? Ha! But when you start spreading this delusion outside of…

Will you two please just stop this?

Why? I find both perspectives very informative.

Please don't let your personal relationships spoil an informative (if sometimes heated) discussion. That kind of kills the "hacker" spirit.

Re: Ask HN: Is Google still a cool place to work?

#123

Post by plywoodtrees »

sadga wrote: post #91
evmar wrote: post #45

(Eight years at Google here.) It's changed a lot over the years and has certainly disappointed me many times, which any xoogler can also tell you. But every time I've considered leaving I've been unable to imagine some other work that gives me the same combination of high freedom and good compensation. I've also seen the occasional person pull a michaelochurch. I've been lucky in that my random fun hacks have been se…

Can you elaborate on Marissa and UX launches? For example, as related to G+?

Reports (eg "In the Plex") have said she reviewed every UI change, above a fairly low bar. For instance, multiple meetings about exactly which shade of blue to use for various controls.

Some people say she brought a valuable discipline and consistency to Google products and held back the worst "designed by engineers" proposals. Other people say she slowed down launches, relied too much on non-scalable personal gut feel, and was arbitrary. I don't know. But if someone previously so central to UI launches leaves, things will at least be different.

Re: Ask HN: Is Google still a cool place to work?

#124

Post by daave »

michaelochurch wrote: post #111
daave wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mayson, can you be more specific? What has happened to them? Gmail: I can't think of anything negative that's happened to Gmail in recent times (unless you didn't like the UI redesign - there are certainly mixed opinions on that), and certainly the performance and uptake of Gmail has only improved. Google Reader: Not much new happening, but it's still running. Are you referring to the changes in the sharing model? Wh…

Despite what some people have claimed on HN, your manager can't deny you from having a 20% project if you want one. Theoretically, managers can't block you from having 20% time, and there's no official permission process you need to go through to take it, but if your manager says, "I'll fuck you over in Perf if you do a 20% project", then you don't have 20%-time. What I'm told is that, before 2007 or so, Google activ…

> if your manager says, "I'll fuck you over in Perf if you do a 20% project", then you don't have 20%-time.

I find it hard to imagine a manager could get away with saying that, but even if they did, I think it would be an empty threat. Perf is designed so that the manager is not a SPOF, your peers' reviews are considered at least as important as your manager's review. It would be pretty obvious if there was a big discrepancy between what your manager says and what your peers say, which would call your manager's review into question. The only way this would be a problem would be if your peers give you bad reviews too (and if that's the case, then maybe, just maybe, you need to take a look at yourself).

Re: Ask HN: Is Google still a cool place to work?

#125

Post by nostrademons »

sadga wrote: post #93
rachelbythebay wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to lengths to not give an actual judgement here, and you come back at me personally. Awesome job. Again, do not rely on that which was to judge that which is. Do your homework and don't assume things are the same.

How long have cletus, nostrademons, and mdwelsh worked at Google?

I just saw this and don't know the context, but I've been at Google since Jan 2009, so almost 4 years now. Assuming mdwelsh is Matt Welsh, he started his sabbatical in June 2010 and left Harvard full-time in Nov 2010. Cletus started right around then as well.

Re: Ask HN: Is Google still a cool place to work?

#126

Post by kentonv »

Bamafan wrote: post #122
pg wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will you two please just stop this?

Why? I find both perspectives very informative. Please don't let your personal relationships spoil an informative (if sometimes heated) discussion. That kind of kills the "hacker" spirit.

Please don't misinterpret anything Michael Church says as being informative. The man is crazy. Like, paranoid schizophrenia crazy. He was banned from Wikipedia not just for vandalism, but for trying to blackmail wikipedia admins by threatening more vandalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Mike_Church). He will, of course, claim that this was all a conspiracy against him by the Wikipedia admins, just like he claims that Google management was out to get him. See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Isomorphic/Minions_of_the_....

At Google, Michael Church is infamous. Practically everyone has heard of him. He is known primarily for having posted many insane rants to a company-wide mailing list. These threads literally consisted of Michael Church writing a wall-of-text rants followed by leagues of coworkers replying to say, in effect, "For the love of God would you shut up already?". He had few, if any, defenders, yet he pretty much ignored everyone and would keep posting unapologetic follow-ups. He would say the same things internally that he now says externally. He is the best proof there ever was that Google employees can say anything they want and not get fired.

To this day, Michael Church is still a popular meme. As in, literally, we have a meme template that is a church with an M on it, and we (his former peers) use it to mock him. He is that crazy.

Re: Ask HN: Is Google still a cool place to work?

#127

Post by pg »

kentonv wrote: post #126
Bamafan wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? I find both perspectives very informative. Please don't let your personal relationships spoil an informative (if sometimes heated) discussion. That kind of kills the "hacker" spirit.

Please don't misinterpret anything Michael Church says as being informative. The man is crazy. Like, paranoid schizophrenia crazy. He was banned from Wikipedia not just for vandalism, but for trying to blackmail wikipedia admins by threatening more vandalism ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Mike_Church ). He will, of course, claim that this was all a conspiracy against him by the Wikipedia admins, just like h…

He's supposed to be the crazy one, and yet you're still arguing on this 4 day old thread everyone else has forgotten about? Will you please just let it go?

Re: Ask HN: Is Google still a cool place to work?

#128

Post by brlewis »

tytso wrote: post #33

I work at Google, and I think it's great. Keep in mind that there are many, many different projects and groups at Google, and so the explicit set of things that you might work on will vary a lot. However, people can also transfer between projects after a year or two, so there is also plenty of opportunities to find cool work that you are passionate about. As far as the "cog in a big machine" that people have talked a…

Thanks for the info, Ted, and congrats on the referral.
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