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What's a $4000 Suit Worth?

nytimes.com

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Re: What's a $4000 Suit Worth?

#51

Post by jrockway »

gknoy wrote: post #28
mason55 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of companies that already do that (Indochino, Modasuite, Black Lapel, etc). No one who cares much about fashion believes that they will overtake a good bespoke suit any time soon. For example, measurement is not as easy as "wrap a tape around your arm". You have to take multiples to make sure you get people as they add water weight, you have to take it at the right spot which might change for each pe…

The skill in measurement is an entirely different skill from that of doing the sewing, however. If you had a machine that could sew as well as a human, we could have an army of measurement experts sending them to the machines, which would churn out custom-made suits. I think the bigger question is how to automate the sewing. If we could do that, I imagine it would make it much more scalable.

I think if we can make self-driving cars we can make machines that can make a suit. The reality is that it's probably cheaper to pay people to do it.

I have a friend who orders custom clothes from China. The quality is quite high and the price is lower than non-custom clothes for sale at Nordstrom's. Who is going to spent money making a machine to do this when the human labor doesn't cost anything?

Re: What's a $4000 Suit Worth?

#52

Post by dredmorbius »

majormajor wrote: post #48
dredmorbius wrote: post #40

Yet another submarine: http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html The suit is dead for any number of reason, dittos bespoke clothing. $4000 is several times what I spend on clothes in a year. It's several times what I spend on clothes in several years. There's a far less expensive option that's highly satisficing. Suits, once an inexpensive, practical, standardized alternative to more ornate and expensive clothing, are now…

This article doesn't read like a subtle "the suit is back!" pitch to me. It's a pretty interesting look at the economics of a couple of different ways of making better-fitting suits. I agree that the interesting changes will come out of the made-to-measure world. Considering the difference in comfort (not to mention look!) that properly-fitting clothing provides, I'd be extremely interested in getting a nice made-to-…

Yes, the article is, if you'll pardon the term, a cut above the usual "suit is back" PR hack job.

It doesn't make the suit any less dead.

And as much as I'm fashion averse, I've also found myself increasingly frustrated by the state of the fashion industry and lack of reasonable alternatives to actually take a mild interest in the article.

Re: What's a $4000 Suit Worth?

#53

Post by jrockway »

westicle wrote: post #46
dag11 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the reference, but I think this better belongs on Reddit.

For a reference that good, maybe he considers it karma well spent.

Gob never refers to the entire suit as costing $4000, so the reference is not that good, actually.

Re: What's a $4000 Suit Worth?

#55

Post by thomaspaine »

majormajor wrote: post #48
dredmorbius wrote: post #40

Yet another submarine: http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html The suit is dead for any number of reason, dittos bespoke clothing. $4000 is several times what I spend on clothes in a year. It's several times what I spend on clothes in several years. There's a far less expensive option that's highly satisficing. Suits, once an inexpensive, practical, standardized alternative to more ornate and expensive clothing, are now…

This article doesn't read like a subtle "the suit is back!" pitch to me. It's a pretty interesting look at the economics of a couple of different ways of making better-fitting suits. I agree that the interesting changes will come out of the made-to-measure world. Considering the difference in comfort (not to mention look!) that properly-fitting clothing provides, I'd be extremely interested in getting a nice made-to-…

The reason you see made-to-measure more so with suits as opposed to more casual wear is because suits are highly structured garments. They have to fit correctly in a lot of different places, whereas knitwear like t-shirts and polos stretch and the same size can accomodate a wider variety of body types. There are lots of places that will do MTM casual button ups.

I have several MTM shirts and suits, and honestly I don't think it's really worth it. For a couple reasons, I'm much happier these days finding a brand that fits me off the rack and having it altered if necessary.

1. The grand promise of MTM is the perfect fit, but your first one or two attempts are almost certainly going to leave you with a garment that doesn't fit. At best, this requires more fittings, trips to the tailor, and time. At worst, you're stuck paying for a garment that you will never wear and cannot return.

2. MTM will always be more expensive. For example, Indochino suits are pretty cheap ($400), but for the same level of construction and fabric you're looking at a a $200 suit from Men's Warehouse. J. Crew sells $130 Thomas Mason shirts, and to get the same shirt MTM from my Hong Kong tailor costs me $200.

Re: What's a $4000 Suit Worth?

#56

Post by stusmall »

philh wrote: post #41
stusmall wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's slightly different. That's called made to measure. Its where you have one stock design and then its custom made to your body. For every M2M suit of a style, the patterns will match, label style will match, pockets will match. Its just the size that is different. I hear indochino does a pretty good job of making affordable M2M suits. For their prices I'd imagine a lot of the process is highly automated. When yo…

> number of buttons that match your personality I'll bite: what correlation is there between your personality and the number of buttons on your ideal suit?

So think of how conservative it is. Someone older, and more conservative could pull of a double breasted suit jacket where someone younger would look like they are wearing a costume. Where something like a single button jacket would is a bit flashier and would fit someone who is much more out going and confident. There are a lot of variations on the same thing. I can just think of styles that run the scales of traditional vs modern and flashy vs conservative, but with those 2 axises you can do a lot to find something to really accent someones personality and style.

Re: What's a $4000 Suit Worth?

#57

Post by BrianGaffney »

If you're in Australia Vinspi.com.au are an online tailored/bespoke suit shop.

You provide the measurements and build a suit design online. 2 week turnaround.

They only ship to Australia at the moment and suits themselves are made in Bangkok.

Re: What's a $4000 Suit Worth?

#58

Post by fleitz »

dredmorbius wrote: post #40

Yet another submarine: http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html The suit is dead for any number of reason, dittos bespoke clothing. $4000 is several times what I spend on clothes in a year. It's several times what I spend on clothes in several years. There's a far less expensive option that's highly satisficing. Suits, once an inexpensive, practical, standardized alternative to more ornate and expensive clothing, are now…

In Vancouver it's hard enough to find french cuffs on shirts, or even a super 150.

No one wears suits anymore and those who do just want cheap garbage, that's pretty much the point of the article.

The bespoke suit is the new Mac Pro, cheap to those who value it and overpriced to those who have no use for it, hence virtually no bottom line. (Mac Pros aren't a $24B business, but to those who desire them there is no substitute).

Get your t-shirts tailored and you'll start to see the value tailors can provide if you're the sort of person willing to spend money to look better.

Re: What's a $4000 Suit Worth?

#59

Post by misterbwong »

Interesting. I wonder how the foreign suit makers affect this business. I have a few friends that visit Thailand regularly and get custom suits made (cost is <$200 USD). For the price of one of these suits in NY, you could fly to Bangkok (in Business Class!) AND get a few custom made suits.

Re: What's a $4000 Suit Worth?

#60

Post by patio11 »

Frew, who apprenticed with a Savile Row tailor, can — all by himself, and almost all by hand — create a pattern, cut fabric and expertly construct a suit that, for about $4,000, perfectly molds to its owner’s body. In a city filled with very rich people, he quickly had all the orders he could handle.

You don't have to be Wall Street to figure out the bleedingly obvious solution to being a starving artist who has so much work they have to turn work away. Raise the prices. Then raise the prices. Then when you're done with that, raise the prices.

At some point you'll be too expensive for the typical businessman, which will make you absolutely crack for a certain type of person common in New York, thus defeating all efforts at being less busy. So it goes. I guess you will have to raise prices.

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