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We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

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Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#401

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

socalgal2 wrote: post #373
xtracto wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a 44 yo Xenial, not too old, not young. That is, I'm part of the "walkman generation" . It surprises me how people are less and less open to socialize, to the point that some even see you with disgust if you DARE to interrupt them from.their mobile phone trance. Society nowadays is pretty ugly. Younger generations seem very isolationist to me.

I'm sure this is more a reflection on me but I try to go out to meet strangers at meetups and I find I quite often don't like the people. You might get the random ultra woke person who makes it impossible for others to have a conversation because they're just waiting to be triggered by anything anyone else says and find a way to spin every comment into an offence. If anyone brings up politics then the meetup is over,…

Yeah I've found just the opposite, political discussion tends to be way more chill in person.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#402

Post by armada651 »

dfxm12 wrote: post #395
bapak wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they still go out It's vastly cheaper to go out in Japan, even if there are more expensive options. Not many cheap hangout options in a lot of places.

This is more a function of dense population centers. Having lived in many places, I went out more in the denser areas. There are more options and they are all up and down the price spectrum. In sparse areas, going to the same few options over and over again isn't fun, and they tend to be more expensive, maybe due to lack of competition.

It's a result of mix-use neighborhoods. In Tokyo your house is usually in the middle of a neighborhood that includes restaurants, shops and other businesses rather than a suburb completely devoid of everything except single-family homes.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#403

Post by throwaway22032 »

shawabawa3 wrote: post #362
exe34 wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bullshit. Most people can afford grabbing a beer in a supermarket and going to the park. They just choose not to. In the UK, most councils have made parks alcohol-free zones. Also, the parks are only nice about 3 months a year. The rest of the time it's damp and miserable.

> In the UK, most councils have made parks alcohol-free zones Uh, citation needed? Some small parks, cemeteries, kids playgrounds maybe Every large park in London at least is full of people drinking There's even a kids playground next to a pub in London fields where I often go drinking with other parents while the kids play

They are just being daft.

Most of the UK has laws or bylaws at least against antisocial drinking e.g. if you're being a twat, violent, homeless, etc you will be asked to pour it out and leave, in incredibly rare cases I guess you might be fined but probably not.

Just having a beer in public at a picnic with friends is fine and is a national pastime.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#404

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

marcosdumay wrote: post #356
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My take on this: life is actually a lot harder for young people than when we were kids. There is less opportunity for upwardly mobile advancement, and social media has essentially wrecked people's brains (adults included). I complained that I think it's sad that a lot of young people don't just see "going over to friends' houses to hang out" as a primary option - it just doesn't occur to a lot of young people, but in…

> I complained that I think it's sad that a lot of young people don't just see "going over to friends' houses to hang out" as a primary option Young people don't have space on their houses.

Again, I have to chuckle when I hear these excuses. When I was young in mid 90s we would all pile in to someone's 400 square foot studio apartment.

I'm not blaming young people today for not seeing this as an option. But it is the case that lots of folks have/had a lot less space and didn't see that as any barrier to hanging out.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#405

Post by dismalaf »

twoodfin wrote: post #367
dismalaf wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That graph starts 70 years after the aforementioned coal miner scenario... And yes, in the 1800s housing was comparatively cheap because land was close to free and you built your own home. Same goes for booze and venues to drink it because you made your own and there was zero regulation. Today everyone is being choked by the relatively high cost of real estate (inflation looks ok because we have cheap durable goods l…

When do you think that trend reversed and per capita disposable income was declining prior to the current rise?

Oh, I missed that you didn't use a number divided by expenses because I just assumed you'd use a relevant number. And "real" income isn't great because again, tons of durable goods are incredibly cheap these days, but real estate/food and drink isn't.

Absolute numbers are completely worthless because of the price level of the goods we're talking about in the first place. They could make a dollar a week and it's fine if a drink costs a penny and housing is free, for the purposes of this discussion.

Price level aka inflation of real estate and drinks/food is literally the most relevant number here.

Edit - I did some napkin maths. A beer in 1890 was about 3 times cheaper than today relative to income, assuming Google's numbers are somewhat accurate.

Also, anecdotally, food and drink in North America are expensive. We have a second home in Czech Republic, and beer is about 4-5x cheaper there than in Canada, while incomes are only about 30% less, and for young people the gap is even less.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#407

Post by bebeskids »

dv_dt wrote: post #257
stdvit wrote: post #97

> Even in a world brimming with easy distractions—TikTok, Pornhub, Candy Crush, Sudoku—people still manage to meet for drinks, work out at the gym, go on dates, muddle through real life. They actually don't. Everything from dating and fitness to manufacturing and politics is in decline in activities, and more so in effect and understanding. You can't convince (enough) people anymore that it is even important as many…

Though it's popularized to blame social media and phones, economics should not be overlooked. Pay for young generations is lagging and restaurants and bar prices are super high. Public spaces for informal gatherings has shrunk - eg fewer malls

Parks, libraries are cheap and free and they're dead where I live, a metro area of 2+ million

The only people I see out are families with grandpa in tow to pay for a mediocre overpriced wood fired pizza.

No one has analog skills. Just social analysis skills. Very briefly dated a 39 year old who admitted she had never baked, boiled, or microwaved her own potato. Already got 2 kids.

We reach endgame sooner in life. We grind all the content immediately because we aren't growing the potatoes and sewing the clothes, weaving textiles.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#408

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote: post #323
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that many young people don't seem to think that "Hey, we'd just go over to someone's apartment/house to hang out and have a meal or drink" as a primary form of entertainment (vs. some "activity") makes me realize how much we have fucked over many young people as a society in general.

I did that as a kid and I loved it, but it made sense when everyone was in bicycling distance. Then one by one, we got cars and the friend groups shuffled from "Who is in bicycling range" to "Who is in driving range", and driving range is so big that it's not practical to drive 4 miles to my closest friend, knock on her door, hope she isn't having sex with her husband, and ask if she wants to chill

> and driving range is so big that it's not practical to drive 4 miles to my closest friend, knock on her door, hope she isn't having sex with her husband, and ask if she wants to chill

Does she not have a phone? Calling someone up and saying "hey, let's hang out" and then driving over to hang out was literally how most of suburban social interactions happened in the 90s.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#410

Post by handwarmers »

sdsd wrote: post #278
handwarmers wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah i get the if monkeySee(psychology) then monkeyDo(replicationCrisis); monkeyFeelSmart() algo. it's still a good article :)

git diff your_argument my_response - monkeyFeelSmart(); + monkeyFeelSafe(); People feel hurt and lied to after decades of diligently studying a curriculum who's foundations turned out to be completely fake. Our mental garden must be protected from pests. Some pests even imitate benign bugs like ladybugs, in order to get in. Imagine if tomorrow, it was announced that atoms and gravity don't exist, the motion of heaven…

There is nothing wrong with being dramatic occasionally! I wish there were a real science to help us understand ourselves more reliably too - but there isn't. But maybe we are slowly entering the enlightenment after the dark ages of psychology?

I think in today's world it is easy to become a cynic, and being a cynic is one way to feel safe. Depending on what your utility function about the world is, being a cynic might actually be the most "rational" approach to life - new things are more likely to fail, and if you always bet that something will fail, or is flawed, or worthless, or a scam, you will be right more often that you will be wrong. In the right circles you might be considered a wholesome, grounded, put together person if you are like that.

But perhaps we could get the best of both worlds? Have a little corner of your garden that is entirely dedicated to experimentation with ideas - keep them there, see how they interact with a sampling of your actual garden, and after you feel confident enough, promote them to the real garden, and let them nudge your life a little. If it turns out for the worse, tear them out and throw them,

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