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Microsoft is open sourcing Windows 11's UI framework

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Re: Microsoft is open sourcing Windows 11's UI framework

#51

Post by brokencode »

jiggawatts wrote: post #24
BoorishBears wrote: post #2

Seasons may come and go, but one thing will never change. Windows and an absolutely baffling array of UI frameworks with various pitfalls, uncertain futures, and no clear winners. (honorable mention to WinForms though.)

My analogy is every Microsoft UI framework was almost completed in the sense of someone being almost pregnant. A framework that has just one show-stopper missing feature or problem is... unusable. You can't embark on a large, complex application development journey if you even suspect that you'll be painted into a corner. For example, many of WPF-derived frameworks had atrocious performance, with fundamental mistakes…

I just have to wonder.. why after decades can Microsoft not get this right? I’d love to hear insider stories about what’s going on here.

Re: Microsoft is open sourcing Windows 11's UI framework

#52

Post by tcfhgj »

cheschire wrote: post #30
muhehe wrote: post #20

I already lost count how many UI frameworks are in windows. It looks like complete chaos and mess. I really wonder what they expect from open-sourcing it. Just to pretend how open they are? Or is there any real benefit to developers who target windows?

WinUI is an evolution of UWP which is an evolution of WinRT. WinUI has been around for years. MAUI is not exactly a competing product and is more about enabling cross platform UI development. Different intent. WinUI is actually ok tech. It’s evolved over the years through a few iterations, now on WinUI 3. Im mostly with you though. Until they rebuild the entire OS in it, including all of the administrative controls a…

I think only WinUI2 (deprecated) is an evolution of UWP (uses WinRT APIs). WinUI3 is something different.

Re: Microsoft is open sourcing Windows 11's UI framework

#53

Post by Kwpolska »

DiabloD3 wrote: post #48
cheschire wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WinUI is an evolution of UWP which is an evolution of WinRT. WinUI has been around for years. MAUI is not exactly a competing product and is more about enabling cross platform UI development. Different intent. WinUI is actually ok tech. It’s evolved over the years through a few iterations, now on WinUI 3. Im mostly with you though. Until they rebuild the entire OS in it, including all of the administrative controls a…

They already do, though. The big UI refresh in Win10 is all XAML, and the new Win11 taskbar (the one we all hate) is now a totally normal XAML app. WinUI 3's big changes (to get a 3.0 version number) is not with the XAML stack itself, but its new ability to be called by unmanaged apps as a normal UI toolkit, so it can finally be used by all apps. No more using Shell UI like we're writing Win 3.1 apps. And yes, some s…

> The Win8/10 taskbar's code predates Avalon (the prototype/codename for WPF), and trying to change/fix it at all usually ended up breaking it. It's one of the few binaries on Windows that would not be recompiled to build a new release image in fear of breaking it.

The taskbar that underwent a major redesign in Windows 7 (released after WPF)? Also, that binary is explorer.exe, surely it got rebuilt quite often for new ads. features, and fixes?

Re: Microsoft is open sourcing Windows 11's UI framework

#55

Post by arunc »

> Alignment with Microsoft Goals

> We are being thoughtful about resourcing. This effort is happening alongside other critical responsibilities like security, platform stability, and support for existing products. Our current focus is on foundational work that unlocks value for contributors and increase transparency. We are aligning this work with Microsoft’s broader business priorities to ensure long-term support and impact.

I don't sense any benevolence in their words. They are just pulling off their resources and dumping the framework on the public, hoping passionate losers will contribute.

Re: Microsoft is open sourcing Windows 11's UI framework

#56

Post by tcfhgj »

cheschire wrote: post #39
qcnguy wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WinRT came out of UWP I think. UWP was their first attempt to move beyond .NET

WinRT was windows 8. Remember the ARM-powered Surface RT had the same branding? UWP came along in windows 10.

WinRT was introduced with windows 8, the WinRT APIs still exist in Windows 11.

Re: Microsoft is open sourcing Windows 11's UI framework

#57

Post by 9029 »

perching_aix wrote: post #32
flohofwoe wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the Windows team even using WinUI for the native Win11 desktop UI? ;)

The Start Menu is apparently a React Native app, so I'm going to hazard a guess and just assume WinUI is built on top of React, and that the Start Menu at least is thus indeed built with WinUI. But it's also clear that some other parts aren't, so who knows what's what. I'm sure there are folks who spent time reverse engineering it all though who do.

> The Start Menu is apparently a React Native app

What's the source for this?

Re: Microsoft is open sourcing Windows 11's UI framework

#58

Post by perching_aix »

9029 wrote: post #57
perching_aix wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Start Menu is apparently a React Native app, so I'm going to hazard a guess and just assume WinUI is built on top of React, and that the Start Menu at least is thus indeed built with WinUI. But it's also clear that some other parts aren't, so who knows what's what. I'm sure there are folks who spent time reverse engineering it all though who do.

> The Start Menu is apparently a React Native app What's the source for this?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44124688

Re: Microsoft is open sourcing Windows 11's UI framework

#59

Post by paavohtl »

I am worried about the future of native UI technologies on Windows. Traditionally at least the developers of operating systems have eaten their own dogfood and have at least tried to implement well-performing & visually consistent native applications to serve as an example to others. Windows 11 has largely done the opposite. Windows has had minimal but perfectly functional native email and calendar apps at least since Windows 10 (could have been in 8, never used that). Windows 11 originally shipped with those apps, but they were removed in a later update and replaced with laggy webview wrappers that take seconds to start.

Re: Microsoft is open sourcing Windows 11's UI framework

#60

Post by qcnguy »

DiabloD3 wrote: post #45
qcnguy wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WinRT came out of UWP I think. UWP was their first attempt to move beyond .NET

You have that backwards. WinRT is the managed languages runtime for Windows, introduced in Win8. Its sort of the replacement for COM/OLE but also defines the ABI dialect in a way that allows managed languages to call unmanaged code without an FFI penalty. UWP is built on WinRT, and acts as a fully managed app container, similarly to how phone apps exist on your phone. It allows WinRT apps to be deployed to any Micros…

Yeah but I think when it was introduced it wasn't a thing you could use separate from the rest of UWP. What changed in Win10 was you could use WinRT APIs from regular Win32 apps too. They started breaking UWP up into independent pieces.

Or not. I haven't thought about this stuff for years. Definitely possible I forgot the ordering of things.

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