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“No tax on tips” is an industry plant

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Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#491

Post by rtp4me »

apelapan wrote: post #475
rtp4me wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you say “I didn’t tip because the service was what I expected”, you’re pretty much considered an asshole Sorry, this is definitely not the case. Many times the worker is doing exactly what is needed and nothing more (eg: pour a beer in a glass, handing me a pizza). Why would I be considered an asshole if I didn't tip? That is ridiculous. As other people have said, tipping in the US has really become obnoxious. I…

Why does sitting down cause you to tip? Why would employees in front of a counter be more deserving than employees behind a counter? Or perhaps I should put it like: Why would a business need to pay a predictable market rate salary for employees behind the counter, but not for employees in front of the counter (because you step in and provide it instead)?

Because the person serving a beer at a bar simply poured me a beer. I walked up to the bar where I ordered from the menu. The level of interaction with staff = 1. Effort from staff = 1.

The the waiter/waitress had to come to my table, discuss the menu, provide feedback on questions, submitted order to kitchen, delivered order, checked back on us to see if we need anything else, etc. Level of interaction with staff > 1, level of effort from staff > 1. Tip appropriately if level of effort > 1 for helpfulness, politeness, attentiveness, etc. Stop making this so hard.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#492

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

steveBK123 wrote: post #47
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least the current version of the code has a ton of limits on what can be labeled tips, and the benefit phases out completely around $150k, and is only applicable to professional that traditionally receive a significant portion of income from tips - so it's not like you're going to have billionaires and PE fund managers paying themselves from their companies tens of millions in bonuses labeled as "Tips" and not pay…

Plenty of early stage PMC jobs make under $150k, pay bonuses and CEOs would gladly be able to pay a little less if they can finagle it to be tax free. Do they have a list of professions and industries eligible or are they going with weak “traditionally tipped “ language? And we expect the DOGEd and defanged IRS to vigorously enforce?

> Do they have a list of professions

Yes.

> And we expect the DOGEd and defanged IRS to vigorously enforce?

It's easy to enforce as written, even with a defunded IRS.

Whether or not it will be enforced is a different question entirely. My crystal ball isn't working.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#493

Post by IncreasePosts »

amosslade wrote: post #469
rayiner wrote: post #453

> But, when three members of the group came forward to testify, all expressed support for the Tipped Workers Protection Act and opposition to the One Fair Wage Act, which they portrayed as an effort to steal their tips This article is missing a real issue here by trying to make the story all about the employers. Many workers like the tip system because it creates inequality among the restaurant workers. Good servers…

>creates inequality Did you mean that it rewards them for their efforts?

I guess carrying around a large rack takes more effort than a small one.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#494

Post by smelendez »

abcd_f wrote: post #487
rayiner wrote: post #453

> But, when three members of the group came forward to testify, all expressed support for the Tipped Workers Protection Act and opposition to the One Fair Wage Act, which they portrayed as an effort to steal their tips This article is missing a real issue here by trying to make the story all about the employers. Many workers like the tip system because it creates inequality among the restaurant workers. Good servers…

Sales' commissions and servers' tips is an apples-to-oranges comparison.

I think tips in many places are slowly converging into something like a 20% commission paid by the consumer, thanks to restaurants including a suggested tip on the screen or receipt, and bars automatically charging a 20% tip if you don't explicitly close your tab.

I hadn't thought of this before, but keeping tips as formally selected and paid for by the consumer may help the restaurant with liability issues where alcohol is involved. Paying servers and bartenders a direct sales commission might become an issue in court if a customer is overserved.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#495

Post by pixelatedindex »

sandmn wrote: post #478
rayiner wrote: post #453

> But, when three members of the group came forward to testify, all expressed support for the Tipped Workers Protection Act and opposition to the One Fair Wage Act, which they portrayed as an effort to steal their tips This article is missing a real issue here by trying to make the story all about the employers. Many workers like the tip system because it creates inequality among the restaurant workers. Good servers…

Is the definition of a good server in this case one who can serve more tables than others in the same amount of time? In most places tips are mandatory and % does not depend much on anything unless someone messed up. Commission on sales is very different from restaurant tips.

Tips, at least in the US has never been mandatory but it is an immense social pressure. Besides, my understanding is that tipping % is arbitrary anyway - there have been studies that show good looking people get more tips.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#496

Post by SilasX »

bombcar wrote: post #429
kingstnap wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On delivery apps it should be called a "bid" and I think honestly it would be more ethical than the shady nonsense they do now if they went all in on that.

If the apps were actually what they claim to be (a marketplace to connect hirers and workers) that's exactly what you'd have - the cost of the food + flat fee for the platform + your bid for the work. The platform could even suggest a bid, but you could choose to bid higher or lower depending on what you think would go through. But that's not what they are; they're shady "avoid employment laws" companies.

I often see the claim that it would be above board/legit/not a circumvention of employment laws if they ran a bidding system like that. But ... that's exactly how Sidecar worked (Uber competitor, shut down Dec 2014), and I never saw anyone distinguish them from Uber in their criticisms (until people forgot that model existed).

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#497

Post by [deleted] »

saurik wrote: post #467
rayiner wrote: post #453

> But, when three members of the group came forward to testify, all expressed support for the Tipped Workers Protection Act and opposition to the One Fair Wage Act, which they portrayed as an effort to steal their tips This article is missing a real issue here by trying to make the story all about the employers. Many workers like the tip system because it creates inequality among the restaurant workers. Good servers…

Some people always like the status quo: no bloc is 100% consistent. With numbers like what you provide, though, this would be a minority of affected people... though, the ones with the most money to lobby.

[deleted]

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#498

Post by IncreasePosts »

amosslade wrote: post #466

My daughter works at a mid-tier restaurant 35 hours a week and makes more than my wife who is a math teacher, department head, and has many years of teaching experience. Eliminating tips and increasing the base wage is a stupid idea. All the talented servers who love the job will leave and mediocre people will replace them.

What exactly are they going to leave for? What well paying skills is your daughter not putting to use so that she can help people get food?

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#499

Post by IncreasePosts »

marcellus23 wrote: post #468
SSchick wrote: post #133

My tips have been going down progressively, when I moved to the US I was taught 20% is "normal", now I tip 15% at MOST at restaurants and at MOST 5% on take out. I'm tired of being shamed to pay more for less. Also whoever was in charge of teaching staff to "turn away in shame" when the tipping screen is shown needs to go to some sort of gulag.

> and at MOST 5% on take out Why would you ever tip on take out? What are you tipping for exactly?

The people who cooked the food

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#500

Post by fogzen »

xp84 wrote: post #380
kelnos wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In California we've set the tipped minimum wage to the same as the non-tipped minimum wage (so employers have to pay their employees the same regular minimum wage regardless of whether or not it's a tipped job). Unfortunately, that hasn't fixed the tipping problem. Of course, a living wage in California is quite a bit higher then even our above-average minimum wage, so that's a big part of it.

I'd argue that (our socially-obligatory form of) tipping is a deceptive pricing practice (not really any better than a store labeling shelves with a giant $4 and a .99 written so small you need a magnifying glass to perceive it). As such, if banning it is too impractical, they should disincentivize it with the tax system. I can't figure out the best way, but it's disappointing that our government is obviously not try…

I think a ban on the solicitation of tips, including tip jars, would be practical and easy to implement. It would still be legal to tip if not asked/prompted. That would make the tip prompts on payment terminals illegal, as well as tip jars.

I don’t think tipping would continue without a way to demand tips or shame people with prompts.

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